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People of the Ice by Fadesintothewest Mature
Hi I am back!!!The Fëanorians find that their kin who crossed the Ice have been utterly changed. Fingon is utterly changed...
A Feast of Ashes by Kalendeer General Audiences
In Barad Eithel, High King Fingolfin lives under the shadow of his half-brother, dead on the very spot where the fortress...
Little Maia by astorey_91 Explicit
A certain Maia of Mandos makes a bad decision. And a certain prisoner takes pleasure in tormenting him.
A Star by astorey_91 Explicit
Random Fëanor/Fingolfin short drabble. Fingolfin's thoughts as he crosses the Helcaraxe.
Half-brothers in heart, full brothers in blood by FirstAmazon Mature
My (rather optimistic) view on the complicated relationship between Fëanor & Fingolfin.   Warning: this story...
Legolas in Esgaroth by ziggy General Audiences
The story of Esgaroth in which Legolas disgraces himself, but enjoys himself immensely. Ch7:In which Legolas does something...
Quill and Steel. Chronicles of a rebellion by Lumeriel Explicit
During a battle against the Dark God, Fingolfin is seriously injured. Faced with the possibility of losing him, Fëanor discovers...

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Shoutbox

Spiced Wine
03/31/20 10:16 am
Yes, the health workers all across the world are absolute heroes!
Fadesintothewest
03/31/20 12:50 am
Definitely lots of real heroes. I am anticipating much more work going live here soon than teaching in person, gulp. Here here to all the health care workers and people supporting their efforts!
FirstAmazon
03/30/20 11:22 pm
I've also been online teaching, which means my voice is long gone lol but yes, there are lots of real heroes out there!
ziggy
03/30/20 10:34 pm
Hilarious stories (sorry- ran out of characters) but also some really stressed NHS workers - we are proud to be looking after their children so they can work. Heroic NHS!
ziggy
03/30/20 10:33 pm
Fadestothewest- yes, we've all been doing online teaching for the past week- good management from our leadership has settled nerves though- but parents homeschooling- hilarious!
Naledi
03/30/20 09:53 pm
*waves to everyone* I’m working from home and also busy. I’m keeping well as are my family, although I miss them. Hope you’re all well.
Spiced Wine
03/30/20 12:43 pm
Well, I’m working from home but really, really busy! So I’v got even less writing time now
Fadesintothewest
03/30/20 08:16 am
Ziggy it is scary and FirstAmazon, definitely terrifying. Ill be updating a story here, but am also hoping to catch upon reading. Online teaching soon, though. Yikes!
FirstAmazon
03/30/20 04:22 am
Terrifying, really! Wishing everyone's ok in this crazy new reality
FirstAmazon
03/30/20 04:04 am
Terrifying, really! Wishing everyone's ok in this crazy new reality
Shout Archive



Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: March 17, 2020 23:58 · For: Chapter 21

He would have gone down a similar path of blaming his father/Fingon/the Feanorions for Idril's death, which would have led him to cling to those he had left.  Maybe he wouldn't have destroyed his friendship with Finrod, but that wouldn't be strong enough to really ground him, and Aredhel wouldn't have responded any better to being clung to.  So yeah, you are probably right that their relationship would crumble.  I think now that Turgon just isn't a person who handles greif in a healthy way at all.  He lashes out and shuts out. Even if it had been Fingolfin or Fingon who had died, he would have looked to someone to blame, and pulled ever closer to those he had left, shutting out the rest of the world.

Yeah, that's how I see it. He would always blame someone else, because even if we're not talking about deaths - like he is blaming Finarfin for stealing Elenwë reborn! - he still reacts poorly, looking for someone else to blame rather than himself. And on the latter, that was not anyone's fault except distance and time! So your Turgon is really one of the people who needed therapy the most LOL

 

Oh yes, let's make this that kind of AU :grins:  God knows we can't handle anymore Feanor-dying plots! (I want so bad for your lovely Feanor and Fingolfin to give canon the middle-finger and live happily-ever-after!!!!)

Hahahaha well, you never know... my story is AU, so anything can happen, really - even though I already know how it will play out, many things can change along the way! :P



Author's Response:

"Hahahaha well, you never know... my story is AU, so anything can happen, really - even though I already know how it will play out, many things can change along the way! :P"

 

:happy scream:  Oh, yes, yes!!!  Give me AU Feanor and Fingolfin, baby!  This gives me hope my heart will not be crushed :)



Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: March 06, 2020 17:54 · For: Chapter 21

While I don't think Gondolin would have ever existed if Elwene died (she would have encouraged Turgon to stay with his family, and his relationship with Fingolfin and Fingon wouldn't have utterly deteriorated).

Oh yes, THIS. I totally believe it.

If Turgon had still built Gondolin and the same dynamic of people inhabited it again, would Elwene have been influenced by the environment as Turgon was? Lured into convincing herself that Turgon's argument of the 'greater good' was the right one?  I like to think she wouldn't be. Idril, for the most part, knew what was happening was wrong, even Turgon knew it was wrong, and I think, with Elwene's council in his ear, wouldn't have been the one influencing HER into accepting this distorted reality, but HIM the one influenced by her steadier moral compass.

That's a really interesting question that only yourself can answer LOL but I think that, rather than be influenced by Gondolin, Elenwë wouldn't have let things go as far as they did. She would have a greater influence over Glorfindel and Maeglin, and who knows how they would have become. Perhaps Glorfindel would be less broken, perhaps he and Maeglin would have developed a stable friendship (or even something else!).

I wonder tho what might have happened with Turgon and Elwene if it was Idril who died....?  If it was the two of them left to live through that kind of grief, and guilt too, maybe even one, or both of them, blaming the other for Idril's death?  Or maybe they would have found comfort in each other and their marriage would have been a bond that reforged itself into titanium.

Again, it's really hard to imagine, since they are your characters hahaha. But I think two clearer things could happen: Elenwë would have forgotten about everything else (her love for Turgon, which in the end would wither and other children, and become this cold, detached character) or she could be even more fierce on her determination to save those she could, perhaps becoming bolder and a warrior even then. I don't know how you feel about this, but I don't see her relationship with Turgon lasting on the long run. 

Like, Fingolfin and other's in Turgon's family would have helped her, but would she have asked?  How could she be sure they would help her and not take Turgon's side and try to convince her to stay?  She had left her family and people behind to follow Turgon, and he had his own group of supporters on top of that who they were living with....how easily it would have seemed like what she was feeling was all in her head!  Surrounded by Turgon's supporters, she would have been more isolated than ever.  (now I'm really glad that it didn't go this way in the story!  Thankfully Elwene was in a place where she had allies and resources when she broke from Turgon).

I think Fingolfin would be too wrapped up in his own grief to worry about her, but I'm certain that, in this AU we're talking about (hahahaha), he would have found Fëanor before his fight with the balrog, and perhaps everything would have been different... but I digress. But yes, it's true that in Gondolin and surrounded by Turgon's cage (inside and out), she would be miserable and helpess to those who depended on her :( thanks indeed you didn't go that way!

Oh, yeah, that's it completely!  And the worst is he still hasn't gotten to a place where he sees where he went wrong with her!  He's still in denial and blaming Finarfin :(

I wonder what will be the turning point for him - because if it wasn't her leaving nor Maeglin coming, what in the hells will open his eyes? I hope it's Fingolfin. There relation also deserves redemption...

LOL I'm totally with you there!  And it came back to bite him in the ass. His inability to hold off on selling the rights (or at least hiring half-way decent writers!) until he'd at least finished Winds turned SO many people sour on his work!  Now, I wonder how many people are actually going to read it when it comes out and how many people are just over it, you know?  Tho, I will say one thing: all the new fans have brought a critical light to a lot of things about the books that were brushed under the rung.  He has had years now to educate himself and hear what his fans are saying about his treatment of people of color in his works, as well as women, and do better....if he will or not is the question, and I only have the smallest hope that he will LISTEN.  If he turns Dorne into a 'lesson on why vengeance is bAd' I'm going to what to kill something. I should have pre-faced this little rant with: I have STRONG opinions about ASOIAF!!!! (like, seriously, you don't want to get me ranting on the racism treatment of Elia Martell and her kids, because I will keep shouting even if it's into the Void lol)

Well, I will read it because, as you might be aware now, I need freaking closure. And I agree with you, it's time he atones for his horrible view on some characters (although in some part of my brain I praise them for their complexity). And we have a saying in my country that is "let's go to the next bar and discuss it over beer", so if you want to rant, feel free, you have my email hahaha. By now you've realized how much I like talking about this subject and could keep going indefinetely.

I have killed it enough in R & U I think even I have had my fill LOL but, seriously, I won't say everything is going to go smoothly, but I don't think I could bare to write another R & U any more than you could read it; it's about time we saw a little happiness for these two!

Oh god, you're actually giving me hope! I'll stick to that, instead of the angst! Thank you for the prospect lol <3



Author's Response:
"But I think two clearer things could happen: Elenwë would have forgotten about everything else (her love for Turgon, which in the end would wither and other children, and become this cold, detached character) or she could be even more fierce on her determination to save those she could, perhaps becoming bolder and a warrior even then. I don't know how you feel about this, but I don't see her relationship with Turgon lasting on the long run."

Hmm, yes, I think you have her measure on how she would respond: either shutting out or becoming a fiercer protector.  As for her relationship with Turgon...I think it would all depend on his own reaction.  If he became overly possessive of her in response to loosing Idril, then yes, she wouldn't have been able to endure that feeling of suffocation long....and really, I'm sitting here trying to think of a but for him, another response, but I don't see one.  He would have gone down a similar path of blaming his father/Fingon/the Feanorions for Idril's death, which would have led him to cling to those he had left.  Maybe he wouldn't have destroyed his friendship with Finrod, but that wouldn't be strong enough to really ground him, and Aredhel wouldn't have responded any better to being clung to.  So yeah, you are probably right that their relationship would crumble.  I think now that Turgon just isn't a person who handles greif in a healthy way at all.  He lashes out and shuts out.  Even if it had been Fingolfin or Fingon who had died, he would have looked to someone to blame, and pulled ever closer to those he had left, shutting out the rest of the world.

"I think Fingolfin would be too wrapped up in his own grief to worry about her, but I'm certain that, in this AU we're talking about (hahahaha), he would have found Fëanor before his fight with the balrog, and perhaps everything would have been different..."

Oh yes, let's make this that kind of AU :grins:  God knows we can't handle anymore Feanor-dying plots! (I want so bad for your lovely Feanor and Fingolfin to give canon the middle-finger and live happily-ever-after!!!!)

"Well, I will read it because, as you might be aware now, I need freaking closure."

Ah, to true.  It's only in my dreams that I'm able to resist lol

"And I agree with you, it's time he atones for his horrible view on some characters (although in some part of my brain I praise them for their complexity)."

Oh, I've no problem with complexity!  He DOES have character building as a strength in his writing, it's when there is no complexity and they become caricatures (like most of the POC in Danny's arc) that it becomes a problem.

" By now you've realized how much I like talking about this subject and could keep going indefinetely."

Yeah, me too :)  What I really need to do tho is write all these frustrations into a story!  But I won't let myself until I've finished Heralds (even if that takes me years!), but writing it all out it so much better than ranting.  But I'm here too if you want to let it out :)  And if you ever write anything in that fandom, I want to read it!

"Oh god, you're actually giving me hope! I'll stick to that, instead of the angst! Thank you for the prospect lol <3"
Yes, it's time we got some happiness for once!


Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 06, 2020 9:37 · For: Chapter 22

Oh, no, lol, I know that the majority of the Noldor aren't exactly those anyone would choose to have at their side in a tight corner, still it's better than it was with some of those who've returned/been reborn. 

 

Now all they have to do is find a way to break the souls free of Mandos, knowing those souls can rebuild themselves, but those souls will be traumatised :(  and for that they'd need the Silmarils, but I imagine Eärendil would certainly help them, and he has the one. 



Author's Response:
"Oh, no, lol, I know that the majority of the Noldor aren't exactly those anyone would choose to have at their side in a tight corner, still it's better than it was with some of those who've returned/been reborn."
True.  And it will keep getting better as more and more of the Reborn regain their memories.  Maeglin's got his work cut out for him!

"Now all they have to do is find a way to break the souls free of Mandos, knowing those souls can rebuild themselves, but those souls will be traumatised :(  and for that they'd need the Silmarils, but I imagine Eärendil would certainly help them, and he has the one."

Oh, for sure!  Eariendil will hand it over without a fight, even if it is his only comfort (he needs to get free!), and you are right, now they only need to find a way into Mandos....and Celebrimbor figured most of that out already, didn't he?  The Rings were MADE for this.  So once the major players get here, things can really get cracking!  


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2020 15:51 · For: Chapter 22

Good reminder :) And if it was Curufin....but Caranthir might be more of the same -seeing another Feanorion in Curufin's place...or maybe he's learned his lesson?  But Caranthir certainly has things to work through on his side when he sees Finrod!  Finrod was the one who Curufin turned to and then who hurt Curufin, and oh boy does Caranthir not get over someone hurting Curufin!  Finrod may not have given Caranthir much thought, but Caranthir has despised (envied) him since Valinor when he saw how well Finrod and Curufin got on.

Oh yeah, there's that... Caranthir will certainly resent their relation, and what he'll see (and as I see) as Finrod's betrayal of Curufin. On the one hand, I think how Aegnor will react to this. He had such a great friendship with Caranthir, and I can't help imagine he will try to build a bridge between the cousins, especially because he has such a fiery temperament like the Fëanorions... and perhaps Finrod will be forced to confront his own prejudices and fears. Like, for real lol.

BUT on the other, there is the surprise element of the twins, especially Eluréd's unpredictability - I'm quite convinced he will try to protect Caranthir with his own life if he has to. Oh boy can't I see amazing things coming out of all this?! lol



Author's Response:
""BUT on the other, there is the surprise element of the twins, especially Eluréd's unpredictability - I'm quite convinced he will try to protect Caranthir with his own life if he has to. Oh boy can't I see amazing things coming out of all this?! lol"
I'm glad you're so excited!  Me too!  I am not even sure yet how everything will go down, so it's still in the discovery stage :)  Elured will be an unknown element indeed!  He's not only protective but also highly suspicious of strange Noldo (like Finrod!), so we will see how that goes down!  Aegnor will be another interesting element, you're right.  On the one hand, of course he'll have Finrod's back, but on the other, if it seems like Finrod is being an ass, he's not afraid to call that out.  Another thing is that we haven't seen him since he regained his memories...will he be changed?  How will he react to Caranthir after learning about Doriath?  Does he consider Dior kin or is he resentful like the Feanorions that the Sindar sat out the war?  Or will he be able to consider it clearly at all with the shadow of Alquendi hanging over it?  We shall see :)


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2020 13:09 · For: Chapter 21

Ah, now this is an interesting question!  On the one hand, she was already a kind person before she died...BUT many people who ended up committing atrocities in Beleriand wouldn't have been considered bad people in Valinor.  If Turgon hadn't ended up building Gondolin even with Elwene still alive, and things turned sour between the Noldor and Wood-elves again, how strongly would he have responded?  How much would he have allowed to 'slide,' and would Elenwe have stuck by his side even if she knew he wasn't living up to the man he should be?  I can see her sticking by Turgon long after she should have left him.  She would have kept thinking he'd change back or keep seeing the good in him.  She wouldn't want to break her family and make Idril choose between them.  She also wasn't a very assertive person before, and there's something about her relationship with Turgon, how depended she was on him because of her isolated lifestyle that makes me think she unfortunately would have stayed with Turgon no matter how bad it became.


I strongly believe that the cultural environment you live in ends up influencing you whether you want it or not - or whether you try pretending nothing is happening, like Turgon in Gondolin with the woodelves. And I can totally see Elenewë beside him if they had stayed in Valinor, because Gondolin is a character in itself... it changed people. Also, Elenwë only defied everything exactly because of Turgon's actions in Gondolin and post-rebirth. Because of Amarië. Before that, she was raised to be dominated by a man.


I don't see Turgon as ever turning physically or verbally abusive towards her, but he's very possessive and emotionally dependent on her that I can see their relationship turning unhealthy.


And following the thought above, yes, mental abuse is as bad as verbal, if not worse. Ultimately, a possessive, emotionally dependent person will make the dominated feel guilty about everything, will try to cage the other... in the end, I think Elenwë would have stayed for the reasons you have given, but also because she wouldn't have enough strenght or reasons herself to walk away... 


Kind of like he idolized their love?  That all other loves became nothing when compared to it?  He seemed to have forgotten any flaw Elwene had ever had; she had become something like a goddess in his mind/heart that that he worshiped and that no other could ever compare to.


Yes, and that certainly is what corrupted it. I mean, she was flawed, but then she died and he put her in such an unattainable place, like this was what love should feel like - idolized (and sick lol). He put her in such a pedestal that she was not even a person anymore, capable of feeling for herself, because she was this perfect thing that "lived for him". And then, nothing could compare to this love, of course, because it was an illusion - therefore his heartbreak when he couldn't even understand how and why she left him... Gosh, that's dense hahaha.


Ho, now!  You are going to give me a fat head lol  but on the other hand, is there a hint in there about how slow my updates are that you'd compare me to GRRM? hahaha


Yes and no. Yes because my anxious, obssessed self would have a chapter a week (and because if it gives you a fat head, well, it's well deserved!). And no because I want to rip his arm off and hit him with it for writing shitty tv series instead of finishing his goddamm books - I wouldn't do that to you, in case you wonder hahahaha


THANK YOU for reminding me!!!  I forgot Feanor actually told Caranthir who he loved!  But of course he would have because Caranthir was struggling with loving his brother!  I don't think Fingolfin named who he loved to Fingon....but I will have to double check that.  And while Maglor knew he desired Feanor, Maglor didn't suspect that he was IN LOVE with Feanor (at that time, with all the strife between their families, it wouldn't have seemed likely to Maglor.  Lust was one thing, but if Fingolfin loved Feanor why would he have let things get that bad? Maglor would have thought).  And oh yes when Feanor finds out about Maglor/Fingolfin :))))))


Hahahaha what have I told you? I'm here for it. It was also one of my favorite parts of R&U, because I always loved reading the soft spot Fëanor still had for Fingolfin, despite his contempt. And of course Maglor wouldn't have thought about love, it made no sense that love could be this messed up (but now I think he knows better lol). About the finding out, a plea: please, don't kill my heart.


You're braver than me to read in public :)  I can't even answer reviewers in public without getting self-conscious cause I've always got this silly grin on my face and will start laughing randomly lol (yeah, I'm totally not in public right now; it have been smiley through this reply so it's a good thing I'm not :snorts:))


I read a lot while in the bus, so you can imagine how freaking difficult it is to not make a scene hahahaha. And yes, I am that kind of person who will burst with laughter while reading in public. I can't help it, it's in my blood lol But I just can't help it, it's too much to ask of my anxiety to NOT read it when I see it xD 



Author's Response:
"I strongly believe that the cultural environment you live in ends up influencing you whether you want it or not - or whether you try pretending nothing is happening, like Turgon in Gondolin with the woodelves. And I can totally see Elenewë beside him if they had stayed in Valinor, because Gondolin is a character in itself... it changed people. Also, Elenwë only defied everything exactly because of Turgon's actions in Gondolin and post-rebirth."

Gondolin is a character in itself...Very true!  And I agree that the environment someone lives in can absolutely influence them!  We wouldn't have the problem we do with racism if our society wasn't based on it :(  And there were no doubt plenty of people in Gondolin -especially those born there- who learned to accept the treatment of the Wood-elves as 'just the way things were' because everyone around them did.  While I don't think Gondolin would have ever existed if Elwene died (she would have encouraged Turgon to stay with his family, and his relationship with Fingolfin and Fingon wouldn't have utterly deteriorated), if Turgon had still built Gondolin and the same dynamic of people inhabited it again, would Elwene have been influenced by the environment as Turgon was?  Lured into convincing herself that Turgon's argument of the 'greater good' was the right one?  I like to think she wouldn't be.  Idril, for the most part, knew what was happening was wrong, even Turgon knew it was wrong, and I think, with Elwene's council in his ear, wouldn't have been the one influencing HER into accepting this distorted reality, but HIM the one influenced by her steadier moral compass.
I wonder tho what might have happened with Turgon and Elwene if it was Idril who died....?  If it was the two of them left to live through that kind of grief, and guilt too, maybe even one, or both of them, blaming the other for Idril's death?  Or maybe they would have found comfort in each other and their marriage would have been a bond that reforged itself into titanium.

"in the end, I think Elenwë would have stayed for the reasons you have given, but also because she wouldn't have enough strenght or reasons herself to walk away... "

Yeah, though anyone can become a victim of an abusive relationship, I think that how she had been raised -to be so depended on a man-- would have been the biggest trap because she didn't have a net-work of friends to open her eyes to the reality of what was happening, nor the recourses to help her get out.  Like, Fingolfin and other's in Turgon's family would have helped her, but would she have asked?  How could she be sure they would help her and not take Turgon's side and try to convince her to stay?  She had left her family and people behind to follow Turgon, and he had his own group of supporters on top of that who they were living with....how easily it would have seemed like what she was feeling was all in her head!  Surrounded by Turgon's supporters, she would have been more isolated than ever.  (now I'm really glad that it didn't go this way in the story!  Thankfully Elwene was in a place where she had allies and resources when she broke from Turgon).

"He put her in such a pedestal that she was not even a person anymore, capable of feeling for herself, because she was this perfect thing that "lived for him". And then, nothing could compare to this love, of course, because it was an illusion - therefore his heartbreak when he couldn't even understand how and why she left him... Gosh, that's dense hahaha."

Oh, yeah, that's it completely!  And the worst is he still hasn't gotten to a place where he sees where he went wrong with her!  He's still in denial and blaming Finarfin :(

"And no because I want to rip his arm off and hit him with it for writing shitty tv series instead of finishing his goddamm books - I wouldn't do that to you, in case you wonder hahahaha"

LOL I'm totally with you there!  And it came back to bite him in the ass.  His inability to hold off on selling the rights (or at least hiring half-way decent writers!) until he'd at least finished Winds turned SO many people sour on his work!  Now, I wonder how many people are actually going to read it when it comes out and how many people are just over it, you know?  Tho, I will say one thing: all the new fans have brought a critical light to a lot of things about the books that were brushed under the rung.  He has had years now to educate himself and hear what his fans are saying about his treatment of people of color in his works, as well as women, and do better....if he will or not is the question, and I only have the smallest hope that he will LISTEN.  If he turns Dorne into a 'lesson on why vengeance is bAd' I'm going to what to kill something.
I should have pre-faced this little rant with: I have STRONG opinions about ASOIAF!!!! (like, seriously, you don't want to get me ranting on the racism treatment of Elia Martell and her kids, because I will keep shouting even if it's into the Void lol)

"About the finding out, a plea: please, don't kill my heart."

I have killed it enough in R & U I think even I have had my fill LOL but, seriously, I won't say everything is going to go smoothly, but I don't think I could bare to write another R & U any more than you could read it; it's about time we saw a little happiness for these two!

 

"But I just can't help it, it's too much to ask of my anxiety to NOT read it when I see it xD"
I feel you!  I've made my share of BAD CHOICES when I see an update of a story I love and I'm supposed to be getting ready for work.  That always ends well lol



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2020 10:54 · For: Chapter 22
'Yes! You caught that! Finrod had no idea until she did it before his eyes. And yeah, it is a source of hope. And also a revolution on their way of thinking about their relationship with the Valar. They thought they needed Namo to rehouse the dead, and now they know they just need to free the souls and the souls can do it all themselves. And more: Caranthir and the twins who have rebuilt their own bodies have arrived! Elurin especially is important in this because he understood the process best and helped Caranthir remake his own body.'

My god! I know the rebels have no love for the Valar as it is, but SURELY there would be more (waverers, perhaps) who would be incensed, outraged at the lies and pomp and circumstance all wrapped around the dead being reborn through Námo's 'mercy', not to mention what the Valar have done to their minds when in Mandos.

And yes, of course Elúrin, so much power there, and also incalcuability, I'm not sure anyone knows (save you) what he can do.



Author's Response:
Ah, these Noldor :sigh: they are certainly not the cream of the crop!  I mean, these are the Noldor who were so complacent that they stayed in Valinor, and even of THAT number, the Valar purged those who had opened their eyes to the truth and had joined the rebellion.  Finding allies is an uphill battle now...some of the Gondolindhrim who have not shoved their heads up their asses and who have actually started to change their thinking, can help, and Idril does have an alliance with the Teleri and those Noldor who sailed....but it's not nearly enough to make war on the Valar.  Even all the host of the Noldor couldn't defeat Morgoth and his armies.  I'm afraid it's going to remain a war from the shadows until they get Feanor back and break down the walls of Mandos (a job for three certain Rings hint, hint).
You know, before I started writing this story, I thought we would have the Dead back in a few chapters, oh sweet summer child lol  We are certainly closer, but we are like 100, 000 words in :face plant:


Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: February 28, 2020 20:39 · For: Chapter 22
What an emotional chapter. Some parts of it were so overwhelming, that I couldn’t read it in one sitting. Even now I still cannot get all my thoughts in order. Once again you’ve shown that the Feanorians are the core of this story. There are other compelling characters, of course, but they just cannot compare with the House of Feanor. The all-consuming love the members of this family have for one another never fails to hit me like a ton of bricks, and that is what makes this story so special. It’s strange that Turgon’s obsession with Elenwe feels wrong and stifling, but the devotion of the Feanorians toward one another doesn’t, despite all the tragedy that came of it.

This was a nice change of pace after all those chapters focused on Turgon and Idril. It is appropriate that Elmirion was the one to help Celebrian be reborn. I loved their relationship in Eregion. It was a great example of a healthy parent-child relationship. I think the story needed something positive and wholesome like this after all the drama involving Idril and her parents, Idril and Earendil, and even Finrod and Finarfin. I’m really interested about what Celebrian can bring to the table. What was the situation in Middle Earth when she sailed? Had Maglor succeeded in contacting Feanor by that point? Obviously Celebrian knows everything Celebrimbor learned from Annatar about the Halls of Mandos, so maybe the rebels can finally begin to make tentative plans using this information. There’s also Este to consider. I’m really excited for all the possibilities!

By the way – I am not even a tiny bit sorry for Finrod. Yes, he suffered, but he had no right to pile up his trauma on Elmirion. Elmirion has his own trauma to deal with, and he really doesn’t need any additional problems from Finrod. While I would love for all the Finwions to talk through their issues and become close by the end of the story, I realize that is very unlikely and unrealistic. At this point I think I could accept it if Finrod and Elmirion never became friends. Maybe this could be one of those unrealized relationships that might have been a great friendship in another time and in another place. Regardless, whatever you decide, I’m sure it won’t disappoint.

Does Earwen know about Elmirion’s existence? If she does, she most likely thinks that his Feanorian blood trumps everything else. I suppose Celebrian would be considered tainted by association.

It was great to see Elured trust Caranthir and seek him out for comfort. Caranthir’s protective feelings for the twins gave me a lot of warm fuzzy feelings. Of course the twins have so much trauma to work through. It’s interesting that despite opening up to Caranthir, they are still wary of other Noldor. I suppose interacting with and getting to know others would be a step in the right direction for them. I’m really interested to see how they will fit in with the other Feanorians.

I’m still undecided on Nerdanel. On the one hand, she didn’t leave a great impression after R+U (of course Feanor isn’t blameless in the breakdown of their relationship either), and her denying that she had sons was very upsetting for me. On the other hand, this is a second chance for everyone, and that includes her. I’ll have to see what choices she makes going forward. You know, I never thought that Curufin would be Nerdanel’s favorite child (I headcanoned that it would be Caranthir), but it somehow fits. It’s so ironic, considering Curufin’s abandonment issues.

Thank you for the chapter. There was so much here that tugged at my heartstrings, and I think I will need a few more days to regain my composure. You are a great writer, good job!

Author's Response:
 "Once again you’ve shown that the Feanorians are the core of this story. There are other compelling characters, of course, but they just cannot compare with the House of Feanor. The all-consuming love the members of this family have for one another never fails to hit me like a ton of bricks, and that is what makes this story so special." 

Thank you :)  

"It’s strange that Turgon’s obsession with Elenwe feels wrong and stifling, but the devotion of the Feanorians toward one another doesn’t, despite all the tragedy that came of it."

This is an interesting point that got me thinking about why exactly this was, because yes, at first glance Turgon's love for Elwene doesn't seem all that different from a Feanorion's love, and yet it gives off such a different vibe.  I think, in the end, it comes down to Turgon's love being blindness and a possessiveness that wants to hoard Elenwe all to himself.  He doesn't really know who Elenwe is now, and rather than accept her faults -her going to Finarfin for example- he closes his eyes and points his finger at Finarfin.  The Feanorions on the other hand love each other in spite of their flaws.  They know, intimately, who the others are, even some of their darkest secrets, and yet still love them.  And Turgon's possessiveness has a different edge to it to because if he got his way he would keep Elwene locked in a tower with him for eternity with either of them leaving or wanting to leave (he doesn't realize this is want he wants, but it is; he's terrified of losing her again, and his response to that is wanting to remove her for the world that thought take her away).  Compare that to Feanor who is possessive of his sons and fearful of loosing their love for him/ or others taking his place in their hearts like others took his place in his father's, but, while he has his moments of stumbling, in the end he chooses to let them go, to trust them, to loosen his tight hold before it turns to suffocation.  And because of that his sons love him all the more, but because Turgon could not let Elewne go, she felt like she was trapped.

"It is appropriate that Elmirion was the one to help Celebrian be reborn. I loved their relationship in Eregion. It was a great example of a healthy parent-child relationship."

So true!  I remember conciously making the choice to give Elmririon a loving environment to grow up in.  It could have turned out different if Celebrain was a different kind of person who resented the preagnancy and dropped Elmririon off with Celebrimbor and never looked back, but she showed herself to be a woman of quality :)

"I’m really interested about what Celebrian can bring to the table. What was the situation in Middle Earth when she sailed? Had Maglor succeeded in contacting Feanor by that point? Obviously Celebrian knows everything Celebrimbor learned from Annatar about the Halls of Mandos, so maybe the rebels can finally begin to make tentative plans using this information. There’s also Este to consider. I’m really excited for all the possibilities!"

Ah!!!  I'm glad you are thinking on these lines!  All very important questions that should be answered in the next few chapters.  Well, except for Maglor and Feanor.  Does he have the power to reach Feanor in Mandos...yes, he does, to a point.  But does he realize it?  The Silmarils are going to be key to getting Feanor out of Mandos, but right now Maglor only has half of the surviving duo, and doesn't yet know what he holds.  I do think though that every time he holds the Silmaril, an echo of his love reaches Feanor (probably the only thing keeping Feanor sane!), but Maglor doesn't yet know the effect he is having because Feanor can't reach back.

"While I would love for all the Finwions to talk through their issues and become close by the end of the story, I realize that is very unlikely and unrealistic. At this point I think I could accept it if Finrod and Elmirion never became friends. Maybe this could be one of those unrealized relationships that might have been a great friendship in another time and in another place. Regardless, whatever you decide, I’m sure it won’t disappoint."

Yeah, all the Finwions won't be friends at the end....but hopefully they will all grow to a point where they are no longer advisories!  We shall see what happens with Finrod and Elmririon, while on the one hand, you are completely right that Finrod doesn't really deserve a second chance after being so prejudiced against Elmriron, on the other, on the scale of awful things done to each other, Finrod's offense isn't really that bad. I think what makes it so frustrating is that Finrod should know better by this point...or at least it seems like he should.  I think a big test for him is how he will treat Caranthir.  Is he going to make the same mistake all over again when faced with another Feanorion?  I think that will be the real test on whether or not Elmririon would be open to building some kind of relationship with him.

"Does Earwen know about Elmirion’s existence?"

Nope.  They are trying to keep things are quite as possible, and now with Celebrain reborn without the Valar's knowledge, they need to keep things doubely under ramps!

"I’m still undecided on Nerdanel. On the one hand, she didn’t leave a great impression after R+U (of course Feanor isn’t blameless in the breakdown of their relationship either), and her denying that she had sons was very upsetting for me. On the other hand, this is a second chance for everyone, and that includes her. I’ll have to see what choices she makes going forward."

Oh I completely agree!  And we will see what happens between her and Caranthir once the fresh shine of reunion wears off.  There are a lot of issues to work through, and right now they are pretty much strangers to each other...well, worse than strangers because they have lots of baggage to unpack as well.

"You know, I never thought that Curufin would be Nerdanel’s favorite child (I headcanoned that it would be Caranthir), but it somehow fits. It’s so ironic, considering Curufin’s abandonment issues."

Ironic indeed!  But Curufin was not only an adorable kid, he also had so much in common with Feanor and, despite Feanor never returning her feelings, Nerdanel did fall in love with Feanor (a Feanor who had a lot in common with a young Curufin).  Caranthir's relationship with Nerdanel will be revealed more in-depth next chapter, tho I should through out that Caranthir is not an entirely reliable narrator when it comes to his childhood.  His relationship with Nerdanel was formed in childhood and never had the chance to mature and clarify in adulthood.  That's not to say that what he felt was in any way invalid, just that the events/motivations of, say Nerdanel, may not have been clearly understood by him.

This review was intense!  So thought-provoking, and exciting to hear how much you enjoyed the chapter!!!  You really spoiled me with this one :hugs:



Name: Kalendeer (Signed) · Date: February 27, 2020 20:39 · For: Chapter 22

(I accidentally hit the "submit" button before I was finished!)

Celebrian is still there? I thought she had merged with Estë? So a Fëa can power a Vala without being wholly consumed?

Finrod: Well if he's a Fëanorion he is untrustworthy, but if he is also my nephew then all his fine and now I am so sad I wasn't friendly! Finrod, you kind of deserve to be miserable here.

"When Father called Maedhros his little fox, Caranthir thought of the vixen, and it seemed to him that Father was the mother fox and they were his pups. Father cared for them as fiercely and devotedly as that mother, and they, in turn, followed him wherever he led."

Adequate description of Fëanor in the Revolutionary and the Usurper!

 

I was so happy when Caranthir and Nerdanel were reunited, and then felt so sad for poor Nerdanel. She couldn't even have that one perfect reunion with her son, one moment to sit down and talk to him or just keep hugging him forever...



Author's Response:

"Celebrian is still there? I thought she had merged with Estë? So a Fëa can power a Vala without being wholly consumed?"

Sorry for the confusion!  I'd describe what Celebrain did with Este as more imprinting.  To convince Este to help her keep her soul out of Mandos, she brought Este into her mind and threw everything she was at her, with the goal of trying to stir some empathy in Este, to make her feel SOMETHING for the Elves' plight.  It worked rather more intensely than Celebrain had planned.  Este experienced Celebrain's memories/life so vividly -especially for one of the Vala who had never lived-- that she thought she WAS Celebrain...at least for a time, and now she can't separated what Celebrain loves from what she loves, mostly because Este has never loved or really lived until she did through Celebrain.

 

"Finrod: Well if he's a Fëanorion he is untrustworthy, but if he is also my nephew then all his fine and now I am so sad I wasn't friendly! Finrod, you kind of deserve to be miserable here."

 

He dug his own hole on this one.

 

"I was so happy when Caranthir and Nerdanel were reunited, and then felt so sad for poor Nerdanel. She couldn't even have that one perfect reunion with her son, one moment to sit down and talk to him or just keep hugging him forever..."

 

We will see more of these two's interactions next chapter, but...I certainly can't promise perfection.  Caranthir is intensely loyal to his brothers, and he hasn't spoken to his mother since she left when he was 17.  That's a whole hell of a lot of time and a lot of changes.  I'd say they pretty much have to get to know each other all over again at this point.

 

 

Thank you so much for the review!  Love hearing from you :hugs:



Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 27, 2020 20:23 · For: Chapter 22

I knew... I knew I was going to cry like a baby once I started reading this... lol


How easy that answer had sprung to his lips; how effortlessly Curufin's shadow swallowed Elmírion up, like an orca closing its jaws around a seal cub. Had Finrod opened his eyes and pierced the shadow with the clear eyes of wisdom? No. He allowed himself to slip into the fog of prejudice and seen only what he wanted to see. Now his nephew stood before him, and Finrod's hand that once flinched from the burn scars, hung limp and empty. It was too late to offer it. It no longer held worth for Elmírion. Once Elmírion lingered in Finrod's presence, called him cousin, and looked to him for welcome, for family. But Finrod turned him away. He had his chance and squandered it. Fëanorions did not offer second chances. Reject them, and they fenced you out.


Oh how sad is this? Finrod slow recover from his own death and rebirth process, which is something Elmírion didn't have to go through yet... poor Finrod! I hope that the coming of Caranthir unleashes a lot of storms - because after the storm there is always a rainbow to look for...


Caranthir loathed being associated with injured sparrows and mice, but he did not jerk his hand away. Elurín’s ivory-white fëa flared, dancing in the air about him like a flock of white moths. Caranthir would not snatch his happiness away with a curt dismissal.


I laughed out loud, but then I cried because HOW MUCH has this character changed and grown? It's truly amazing the maturity death and the presence of the twins forced Caranthir to become such a better, amazing person. And his memories of his brothers, Fëanor (oh my god how much I cried!), even to see a glimpse of how radiant Finarfin had once been.


Besides, Caranthir and Aegnor's relation seemed so genuine, even if never spoken of before. They looked truly great "together", and it made me like Aegnor even more. In fact, all the interactions was so superbly done! I love how you write the Fëanorions, each with their own characteristics - and your Fëanor is THE Fëanor... I mean, I could feel who he is even from his children's memories... </3


Long, the shadows stretched, blood-red, Oath-black, and only now, years after she denied them a third, hundredth, thousandth time, and named them no son of hers, he stood before her and she saw only her son, her baby boy.


This. Oh this was so, so beautiful! Have I mentioned I cried like a baby? What an amazing reunion! 


She dropped her arms, letting her son go. She had learned long ago, in the grip of bitterness, that she could never win. This time though, she decided as Caranthir left her side to orbit Elmírion’s sun, no bitterness would twist roots inside her. Better to have a thimble full of their love than nothing at all.


Amazing, absolutely AMAZING chapter! Superbly done, as usual, Encairion!



Author's Response:

"I knew... I knew I was going to cry like a baby once I started reading this... lol"

 

It's my specialty.  I can't do humor but man can I make you cry lol

 

"I hope that the coming of Caranthir unleashes a lot of storms - because after the storm there is always a rainbow to look for..."

 

Good reminder :) And if it was Curufin....but Caranthir might be more of the same -seeing another Feanorion in Curufin's place...or maybe he's learned his lesson?  But Caranthir certainly has things to work through on his side when he sees Finrod!  Finrod was the one who Curufin turned to and then who hurt Curufin, and oh boy does Caranthir not get over someone hurting Curufin!  Finrod may not have given Caranthir much thought, but Caranthir has despised (envied) him since Valinor when he saw how well Finrod and Curufin got on.

 

"laughed out loud, but then I cried because HOW MUCH has this character changed and grown? It's truly amazing the maturity death and the presence of the twins forced Caranthir to become such a better, amazing person."

 

I love hear this!!!  I really think Caranthir himself doesn't even realize how much the twins have changed him.  But they were his salvation when he returned all alone.  He would have turned into a desperate creature driven by vengeance and hope(lessness) that he'd be able to get his family back.  He needs them, especially Elurid, to anchor him and give himself something in the now to protected and look after.

 

"Amazing, absolutely AMAZING chapter! Superbly done, as usual, Encairion!"

 

Thank you!!!  It means so much to hear you say how much you enjoyed it :hugs:



Name: Kalendeer (Signed) · Date: February 27, 2020 19:40 · For: Chapter 22

Ah ah the convenient rain pushing Finrod and Elmirion together! Are they going to be civil?

 

"Finrod met the Fëanorion’s gaze over the top of the book he idly pursued. Its contents, so intriguing in the library, were now unable to hold his attention as his eyes kept following the Fëanorion’s gradual ramble around the gazebo."

How surprising that a Fëanorion would be distracting !

 

"Finrod turned away, disquieted; though he could not put his finger on what about the scene unsettled him so."

I think I can: it's the fact Elmirion may not be some evil manipulative Fëanorion!



Author's Response:

"Ah ah the convenient rain pushing Finrod and Elmirion together! Are they going to be civil?"

Even plot device couldn't get these two to get along lol

 

"How surprising that a Fëanorion would be distracting !"

Shouldn't have Finrod have learned that by now?  Man's in some kind of denial lol

 

"I think I can: it's the fact Elmirion may not be some evil manipulative Fëanorion!"

 

But he looks like Curufin!!!  He must be EVIL!

 

 

Yep, Finrod isn't so good at actually self-examination is he?



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: February 27, 2020 17:51 · For: Chapter 22

This was AMAZING. I cried when Celebrían was rehoused because we know that Elven souls can re-house without 'help' from the Valar, but do they know it in Valinor? She must be the first there to return, and that will surely rip like a shock-wave through those who are quietly working against the Valar? 


(And Finrod's, well, yes, I hope that this does not end any hopes of the Fëanorions and the children of Finarfin working together,although with the revelation that Aegnor and Caranthir were close at one time, maybe there is still hope, and I can't think Celebrían would allow this schism, with all her own memories of Celebrimbor).

And Caranthir...I really admire (and like) Caranthir. He simply has no side to him, and although he can be abrasive as unfinished obsidian he has an incredibly powerful will. I'm so deeply glad that he met Maeglin. The pieces are beginning to come together...

'But Father loved them all equally as sons; no other sons had ever known such love. Caranthir would march on Doriath again just to feel the echo of that love wrapping him up in its divine-light, heating his skin like his father’s arms as Fëanor’s soul reached out to him through the Silmaril; Father’s supernova love too holy, too zealous, too consuming for any but the descendents of fire to lay their claim upon.'


No-one writes even the memory if Fëanor like you do! 

I cried over all Caranthir's memories. The power and raw beauty of them, even the saddest. And yes, he would have them back even broken and marked by the Oath and the Doom. Of course. he would. 

Absolutely incredible chapter, Encarion! 



Author's Response:

"This was AMAZING. I cried when Celebrían was rehoused because we know that Elven souls can re-house without 'help' from the Valar, but do they know it in Valinor? She must be the first there to return, and that will surely rip like a shock-wave through those who are quietly working against the Valar?"

 

Yes!  You caught that!  Finrod had no idea until she did it before his eyes.  And yeah, it is a source of hope.  And also a revolution on their way of thinking about their relationship with the Valar.  They thought they needed Namo to rehouse the dead, and now they know they just need to free the souls and the souls can do it all themselves.  And more: Caranthir and the twins who have rebuilt their own bodies have arrived!  Elurin especially is important in this because he understood the process best and helped Caranthir remake his own body.

 

"(And Finrod's, well, yes, I hope that this does not end any hopes of the Fëanorions and the children of Finarfin working together,although with the revelation that Aegnor and Caranthir were close at one time, maybe there is still hope, and I can't think Celebrían would allow this schism, with all her own memories of Celebrimbor)."

 

Yes, Celebrain is certainly a unifying force.  Also, Finrod is the one who thinks Elmririon will never give him a second chance, but Finrod is hardly a reliable narrator when it comes to the Feanorions.  I really think sometimes that he doesn't know them at all....or that he only sees the harsh side of them without realizing that there is more to them than that.  Like, he's not completely wrong that the Feanorions are extremely tight-knit and would do morally ambiguous things to see someone they loved safe, but that's not the same as caring nothing at all about the rest of the world.  And while some of the Feanorions, like Celegorm and Caranthir, wouldn't extend another hand at this point, they are not a monolith.  And the irony of ironies is that Curufin is one of the one's who (before he lost himself in Nargothrond) WOULD have given Finrod another chance.  Curufin would tell himself he wouldn't, that he was done with Finrod, but, let's be real here, Curufin is really a bundle of insecurities who was always going to give someone he cares about one more chance even if they didn't deserve it....Caranthir hurt him for decades before he really closed his heart to him.  Before Nargothrond, if Caranthir had come to him and confessed all, Curufin would have forgiven him.  That wouldn't have made things OK between them because all the years of Caranthir attacking him and turning away would still have been there, but Curufin wouldn't have chosen to protect himself over grasping whatever love he could get.

Gods, I need to stop talking about Curufin now!  I'm starting to tear up thinking about him! 

 

"And Caranthir...I really admire (and like) Caranthir. He simply has no side to him, and although he can be abrasive as unfinished obsidian he has an incredibly powerful will. I'm so deeply glad that he met Maeglin. The pieces are beginning to come together..."

I'm going to keep this in a special place and read it every time I'm worried I'm making a mess of Caranthir's character (which happens way to much.  I go through a Caranthir Panic at least once every chapter I write him, thinking I've totally messed him up).  I needed to hear this, so thank you!

 

"No-one writes even the memory if Fëanor like you do! 

I cried over all Caranthir's memories. The power and raw beauty of them, even the saddest. And yes, he would have them back even broken and marked by the Oath and the Doom. Of course. he would."

Thank you :)  And yes, yes, he would have them back anyway he could.  I wish they could come back healed tho!  Free of not only the Oath but the horror of the past.  And yet that would mean changing who they became, all the pain couldn't be erased without turning back the lock and making them who they were in Valinor again, and that would be a disservice to them.  They will have to grapple with everything that happened to make them who they are. 

 

 

Thank you so much for the review!!!  I'm so glad you were able to enjoy it :hugs:



Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 27, 2020 16:51 · For: Chapter 21

Good point!  I can't remember what year Turgon moved to Neverast, but I imagine he wasn't keen on spending time with Fingolfin, Fingon, anyone who could have been a good influence on Idril, while he was still living close.  Idril would have been such a different person if her mother lived!  Not only for the effect her death had on Turgon, but just having that positive, loving relationship in her life.

 

Oh yeah, and it's so sad considering the AMAZING person Elenwë turned out to be! But... would she be that amazing if she hadn't died, met Amarië and Finarfin in Aman? My guess is that she wouldn't. Perhaps she would play blind as the rest of them. In any case, I think Turgon corrupted his love for his wife when she died, because he was already so sick of being supplanted in his father and brother's hearts that he let himself believe that any love that wasn't for her wasn't love at all. I don't know if I explain myself (I don't even know how clear this thought is in my head lol).

 

 

I have a confession to make: I forgot about the Noldor's obsession with self-control.  :face-plant:  It's all coming back now, and it's interesting to think about how Idril fits into this.  I image her self-restraint does earn her points with her court.  I can't image someone with the personality or Adrhel would have lasted a week as queen!  Gods, I just can't believe I forgot that major of a world building element!  I need to go back and re-read my own story lol

 

HAHAHA sorry, I laughed out loud here. It's no surprise, though: your story is so enormous and complex, and you've been writing it for so long! Of course you would forget some parts, it's completely normal. I forget things of my own stories, too, and we can't even begin to compare. But it's up to us, your faithful readers, to bring stuff back on your face LOL (and you know... I'll gladly do it, because I'm a bit obsessed. A new chapter of your story is as good as getting the next Game of Thrones book hahaha).

 

And now, my own confession: I've read the R&U again (because I wanted to cry, yes, don't judge me lol) and I had forgotten some major things, as well. Like the fact that Fëanor knew about Caranthir's love for Curufin and confessed he had loved Fingolfin when he was younger. Which leads me to the question... did anyone ever suspected Fingolfin was in love with Fëanor? Because I can't remember from the PoV if he ever let Fingon know, and from Heralds I don't think Finarfin suspected, either. Of course Maglor would because he had sex with Fingolfin (oh GODS when Fëanor finds out...!), but it would be amazing if someone else had actually seen the truth behind all the hatred (not trying to convince you, just hoping a fools hope to see them reunited and in love hahaha)

 

Really, I just can't wait for them to come back (and now I *just* saw an update from you, and there's a lot of Caranthir in it, and it makes me want to cry all over, because gods I'm so senstive these days ¬¬ I'll go running to it as soon as it's safe to cry in public lol)

 

:blushes:  I have bits and peices of another poem I made for the chapter....if there comes a good time, I'll slip it in :)

 

Ha! Amazing! I could never do poetry, it seems way beyond me. But I love it, and I'm looking forward to read more of yours! :)



Author's Response:

""But... would she be that amazing if she hadn't died, met Amarië and Finarfin in Aman? My guess is that she wouldn't. Perhaps she would play blind as the rest of them."

Ah, now this is an interesting question!  On the one hand, she was already a kind person before she died...BUT many people who ended up committing atrocities in Beleriand wouldn't have been considered bad people in Valinor.  If Turgon hadn't ended up building Gondolin even with Elwene still alive, and things turned sour between the Noldor and Wood-elves again, how strongly would he have responded?  How much would he have allowed to 'slide,' and would Elenwe have stuck by his side even if she knew he wasn't living up to the man he should be?  I can see her sticking by Turgon long after she should have left him.  She would have kept thinking he'd change back or keep seeing the good in him.  She wouldn't want to break her family and make Idril choose between them.  She also wasn't a very assertive person before, and there's something about her relationship with Turgon, how depended she was on him because of her isolated lifestyle that makes me think she unfortunately would have stayed with Turgon no matter how bad it became.  I don't see Turgon as ever turning physically or verbally abusive towards her, but he's very possessive and emotionally dependent on her that I can see their relationship turning unhealthy.

 

"In any case, I think Turgon corrupted his love for his wife when she died, because he was already so sick of being supplanted in his father and brother's hearts that he let himself believe that any love that wasn't for her wasn't love at all. I don't know if I explain myself (I don't even know how clear this thought is in my head lol)."

Kind of like he idolized their love?  That all other loves became nothing when compared to it?  He seemed to have forgotten any flaw Elwene had ever had; she had become something like a goddess in his mind/heart that that he worshiped and that no other could ever compare to.

 

"But it's up to us, your faithful readers, to bring stuff back on your face LOL (and you know... I'll gladly do it, because I'm a bit obsessed. A new chapter of your story is as good as getting the next Game of Thrones book hahaha)."

 

Ho, now!  You are going to give me a fat head lol  but on the other hand, is there a hint in there about how slow my updates are that you'd compare me to GRRM? hahaha

 

"like the fact that Fëanor knew about Caranthir's love for Curufin and confessed he had loved Fingolfin when he was younger. Which leads me to the question... did anyone ever suspected Fingolfin was in love with Fëanor? Because I can't remember from the PoV if he ever let Fingon know, and from Heralds I don't think Finarfin suspected, either. Of course Maglor would because he had sex with Fingolfin (oh GODS when Fëanor finds out...!), but it would be amazing if someone else had actually seen the truth behind all the hatred (not trying to convince you, just hoping a fools hope to see them reunited and in love hahaha)"

 

THANK YOU for reminding me!!!  I forgot Feanor actually told Caranthir who he loved!  But of course he would have because Caranthir was struggling with loving his brother!  I don't think Fingolfin named who he loved to Fingon....but I will have to double check that.  And while Maglor knew he desired Feanor, Maglor didn't suspect that he was IN LOVE with Feanor (at that time, with all the strife between their families, it wouldn't have seemed likely to Maglor.  Lust was one thing, but if Fingolfin loved Feanor why would he have let things get that bad? Maglor would have thought).  And oh yes when Feanor finds out about Maglor/Fingolfin :))))))

"Really, I just can't wait for them to come back (and now I *just* saw an update from you, and there's a lot of Caranthir in it, and it makes me want to cry all over, because gods I'm so sensitive these days ¬¬ I'll go running to it as soon as it's safe to cry in public lol)"

 

 

You're braver than me to read in public :)  I can't even answer reviewers in public without getting self-conscious cause I've always got this silly grin on my face and will start laughing randomly lol (yeah, I'm totally not in public right now; it have been smiley through this reply so it's a good thing I'm not :snorts:))



Name: Kalendeer (Signed) · Date: February 25, 2020 17:56 · For: Chapter 21

"I really hope she will manage to accept her mistakes and change before it's too late and the Valar manage to stage a coup against her. While Idril is definitly not the best leader, changing king and queen every year is not going to help the Noldor against the Valar."

 

You are right to fear!  The Valar have never liked her, and right now she would be easily enough replaced, especially if they pull a soul from Mandos who is remembered as a king....

 

Oh my I can't wait to know who that would be!!! At this point I think that would be Fingon, Fingolfin or Finwë? Finwë seems like the Valar safest choice at this point. Or perhaps the Valar will get the absurd idea of getting Fëanor out just to burn him once and for all with some enormous disaster (that is, if he even remembers who he is after all they did to him).

 

Thanks so much for the awesome review :)  I love hearing your thoughts on the chapter!  I promise next chapter we will finally see the return of some of the people we've been waiting for :)

I am full of many squees right now though I am very afraid of how well they will be.

I read in one of your review Manwë was getting an elven soul and I am really scared one of the favs got eaten…



Author's Response:
"Oh my I can't wait to know who that would be!!! At this point I think that would be Fingon, Fingolfin or Finwë? Finwë seems like the Valar safest choice at this point. Or perhaps the Valar will get the absurd idea of getting Fëanor out just to burn him once and for all with some enormous disaster (that is, if he even remembers who he is after all they did to him)."

All good guesses!  I will only say that yes, it is one of the above :)  My god how aweful it would be of them to let Feanor out of the Halls without any of his sons there!  Or Fingolfin.  He would be all alone.  No, don't give me any ideas for torturing these characters; I'm already awful!

"I read in one of your review Manwë was getting an elven soul and I am really scared one of the favs got eaten…"

Ah, we heard about that in Varda's POV.  She had consumed Irime's soul, and it stopped her fading.  She had debated trying to give Morgoth Feanor's soul, but, thank god, didn't.  She took the soul of a child Vanyar for Manwe.  We don't know the soul, but what a despicable thing to do to destroy an innocents' soul!  Ugh.  She has emerged as the ultimate villain (except Melkor of course), we will see what Manwe does once he's returned to power and his mental facilities....


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 25, 2020 16:36 · For: Chapter 21

Yeah, she has bi-polar.  The thing about bi-polar is that it can be tricked in some people, but in others, even if you care a susceptibility to it, it can remain dormant all your life.  At this point it's dormant in her (there are also something else going on with this in the other Ardhel, but that has yet to be revealed!).  So right now, she's a woman who loves adventure and being on the move, loves laughter and the freedom of a hunt and the thrill of a hunt, but she doesn't suffer from the depressant and manic swings of bi-polar disorder.  I can totally understand why she'd not want to peel open that can of worms, but I too feel bad for Maeglin.  Thankfully he has Elmririon, and while Arehdle might not be his mother, she is still around and can grow into a friend/cousin figure.

Ahh thanks for explaining it to me! I wasn't quite remembering what I've read from the previous stories.

Don't be sorry!  While I came to understand her through writing this chapter, I can't say I like her either.  There was such a sense of isolation and corseted-restrain when writing her.  I found my own posture reflecting it, sitting really straight and adopting more precise movements.  It was weird lol but man I wouldn't want to have lived everyday of my life trying to exercise such rigid control over my body, not to mention the mind as Idril does too!  I think of her and I think of Victoria ladies, confined in both their clothing and manner, not to mention society!  I can't help thinking gondolin ruined Idril.  I image she picked all that up from there, constantly aware of her every word and action being judged.  :shudders:

:ich: creepy! lol but yeah, I don't doubt Gondoling ruined her, either. First the whole conception of the tight society, and then all the trauma she had to live with - seeing all those people die because of her mistake. But then, this search for perfection might also be lack of good ruling figures - she only had Turgon to look up to, as she probably wouldn't remember how amazing her grandfather was.

Oh, for sure.  Gil-galad managed to both have the same problems with repressing himself as she did and yet being a fantastic king.  He was great at compromising and getting people from vastly different cultures with old grudges to work together.  He just had that natural charisma that shown through even when he was at his worst of self-repression.

Exactly. As Erestor said in the PoVII, he admired Gil-Galad because he was a true Noldor: he could exercise his self-control better than anyone he had known, and this was his true strength - I think this is one of the truest Noldorin characteristics.

Oh no! :covers eyes: I meant to cut that!  I kept flip-flopping on if it was horrible or not lol thank you for letting me know you liked it :hugs: 

Well, I for one am glad you didn't cut it. In fact, I would love to see more of that. It's awe-inspiring, truly! ^^



Author's Response:

"But then, this search for perfection might also be lack of good ruling figures - she only had Turgon to look up to, as she probably wouldn't remember how amazing her grandfather was."

Good point!  I can't remember what year Turgon moved to Neverast, but I imagine he wasn't keen on spending time with Fingolfin, Fingon, anyone who could have been a good influence on Idril, while he was still living close.  Idril would have been such a different person if her mother lived!  Not only for the effect her death had on Turgon, but just having that positive, loving relationship in her life.

"Exactly. As Erestor said in the PoVII, he admired Gil-Galad because he was a true Noldor: he could exercise his self-control better than anyone he had known, and this was his true strength - I think this is one of the truest Noldorin characteristics."

I have a confession to make: I forgot about the Noldor's obsession with self-control.  :face-plant:  It's all coming back now, and it's interesting to think about how Idril fits into this.  I image her self-restraint does earn her points with her court.  I can't image someone with the personality or Adrhel would have lasted a week as queen!  Gods, I just can't believe I forgot that major of a world building element!  I need to go back and re-read my own story lol

"Well, I for one am glad you didn't cut it. In fact, I would love to see more of that. It's awe-inspiring, truly! ^^"

:blushes:  I have bits and peices of another poem I made for the chapter....if there comes a good time, I'll slip it in :)



Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: February 21, 2020 0:19 · For: Chapter 21

Great study into the mind of a young tyrant- a bit like Elizabeth 1 must have been with all that power and no one to really tell her what she should and should not do, but only what she could. Love Earendil's violence and the shimmering undercurrent in the whole thing- it's so dry and parched of charity, it could go up in a flash! Great stuff.



Author's Response:
"Great study into the mind of a young tyrant- a bit like Elizabeth 1 must have been with all that power and no one to really tell her what she should and should not do, but only what she could."

Oh yes, Idril is certainly dancing too close to that line.  Her advisers are not quite Yes Men, but a lot of her opposition was rooted out when she sentenced the Gondolindhirm -who would have been a pain to have in court!-- and also with the Valar purging the rest...maybe the only thing really holding her back is her fear of her own judgment.  She doesn't want to admit she made mistakes, but she is also terrified of making them so she wraps herself in the gauze of 'justice,' as long as she can justify her actions through that lense, she thinks she is absolutely right.

"Love Earendil's violence and the shimmering undercurrent in the whole thing- it's so dry and parched of charity, it could go up in a flash!"

Oh, I like this!  Yes, it's like a tinderbox just waiting for the match!  He needs to get out of there soon!


Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: February 20, 2020 23:49 · For: Chapter 18

Finally got some time to catch up - and oh, what an intriguing and compelling chapter. For quite a while I started to feel sorry for Turgon, began even to think he might have been quite badly treated and unfairly. And then- wham! Maeglin starts remembering and suddenly it's all come back what a total bastard he was. Grreat chapter! (I am especially intrigued by the stranger... sounds dangerous...not Maedhros then?)



Author's Response:
"For quite a while I started to feel sorry for Turgon, began even to think he might have been quite badly treated and unfairly."

Ooo, I'm glad he was able to pull you in!  In his head, he certainly has been misunderstood and everyone is out to get him, but, in the end, he was the one who made all the wrong choices.  It was him who pushed Fingolfin away and them uprooted himself entirely from Fingolfin's life, and it was him who started resenting Fingon.  Could Fingon have spent more time with him as children and less with Maedhros?  Yes, of course, but it's normal for an older child to pull away from the younger and make friends their own age/or older, but usually that gap closes again and a friendship can reform.  It didn't in Fingon and Turgon's case because not only were they very different people, but Turgon had decided to nurse his resentment.  And things only grew worse after Fingon married Maedhros and, according to Turgon, choose Elwene's killers.

"(I am especially intrigued by the stranger... sounds dangerous...not Maedhros then?)"

If only it could have been!  But no, that was just Turgon seeing what he wanted to see.  He had a lot of difficulty seeing Maeglin as his own person, and in that moment he was pure Fingon.

Thank you for taking the time to read and review!  I love hearing from you, Ziggy :hugs:


Name: Kalendeer (Signed) · Date: February 20, 2020 19:03 · For: Chapter 21

I found this chapter very interesting. We have seen a lot of Idril lacking compassion, struggling with doing the good thing, struggling with being a Queen after the political turmoil that rocked Tirion before her. She is trully trying to do good, but like most "bad guys" in History, that doesn't mean she is actually succeeding.

What I found most interesting was how difficult it is for her to be a woman. Not only does she constantly fears being perceived as weak or too kind, but she doesn't seem to be able to respect the qualities Elenwë has. At the same time she is unhappy traditionalist male counselors resent her for being a woman AND cannot appreciate that her mother is one - that just shows how much she has internalized what she claims to fight.

I really hope she will manage to accept her mistakes and change before it's too late and the Valar manage to stage a coup against her. While Idril is definitly not the best leader, changing king and queen every year is not going to help the Noldor against the Valar. And really, REALLY hope people will finally start caring about what Elenwë has to stay and stop throwing her counsels away just because she is "soft" and "womanish". I mean, I reread the last scenes between Fëanor and Fingolfin recently and if any of them had had an Elenwë in their life to just give them a hug during this disaster perhaps many things would have been avoided (well, Fingolfin had an Elenwë, but a younger one). It is sad Idril cannot perceive how strong her mother is :/

 

Aredhel and Maeglin: 100% understand why Aredhel wouldn't want to remember. While some elves would want their old life back, some wouldn't, or not at the beginning, or just never. But I get Maeglin would be very sad, not (perhaps never) getting her back.

I was, however, somewhat amused by Elmirion and Finrod, and how they can't stand each other for... not reason actually (except Old Family Drama, which is sad but still sort of ridiculous).



Author's Response:
"What I found most interesting was how difficult it is for her to be a woman. Not only does she constantly fears being perceived as weak or too kind, but she doesn't seem to be able to respect the qualities Elenwë has. At the same time she is unhappy traditionalist male counselors resent her for being a woman AND cannot appreciate that her mother is one - that just shows how much she has internalized what she claims to fight."
Yes, yes, this exactly.  I blame Gondolin for this.  It was so male dominated in the power-structures; Idril really was the only woman who had a voice of any kind, and even she was not invited into the backrooms/the council chamber.  She remembers Gondolin as very traditionalists, with the women who married the kind of men who followed Turgon to Gondolin as traditionalist too, and I think she's right.  And her examples of women who broke out of that mold are Ahredle -who found an awful fate and I've not doubt the two were connected on many lips-- and Irime who...no one would want to emulate.  And the thing about Idril is, she seems to be stuck in the First Age, those first centuries of her life seems to have molded her entirely.  We only see her beginning to break free with Amarie's friendship, but then Amarie was taken away too soon to shatter the shell and Idril hasn't continued to grow but regressed.  I hope her perspective will start to change again as she draws Elenwe back into her council, and starts surrounding herself with other councilors.  What she needs is some of the powerful woman who sat Finarfin's council to be freed and show her exactly what a woman in power can look like -both influential and feminine if they choose, or loving to hunt or craft or whatever it is and still be voices worth listening too.

"I really hope she will manage to accept her mistakes and change before it's too late and the Valar manage to stage a coup against her. While Idril is definitly not the best leader, changing king and queen every year is not going to help the Noldor against the Valar."

You are right to fear!  The Valar have never liked her, and right now she would be easily enough replaced, especially if they pull a soul from Mandos who is remembered as a king....

"I mean, I reread the last scenes between Fëanor and Fingolfin recently and if any of them had had an Elenwë in their life to just give them a hug during this disaster perhaps many things would have been avoided (well, Fingolfin had an Elenwë, but a younger one)."

So true.  And also, she would have made them sit down and talk!  Maybe not as adults (since they might not have listened at that point), but as teens when things started falling apart, a good talk couldn't prevented so much pain!

"I was, however, somewhat amused by Elmirion and Finrod, and how they can't stand each other for... not reason actually (except Old Family Drama, which is sad but still sort of ridiculous)."

Ha!  No reason, indeed.  That is exactly it at this point.  There is no reason they couldn't have gotten over their argument about Maeglin's fate; they just decided they didn't like the other and never tried to over-come that so it's turned into this whole Family Drama thing with people taking sides and half of them not even knowing what the fight was even about!  Communication, communication!  Everyone in this House sucks at it lol  but that's not unusual; aren't most fights started because people didn't bother to really listen?

Thanks so much for the awesome review :)  I love hearing your thoughts on the chapter!  I promise next chapter we will finally see the return of some of the people we've been waiting for :)



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: February 20, 2020 14:45 · For: Chapter 21
Thank you so much for updating. I read this sitting beside my mums hospital bed as she drifts in and out of sleep. It took me away from the place (and the sadness) for a time.

One can’t blame Aredhel for not wanting to remember the woman she was. She is more balanced here, and yet quite similar in her passions and selfishness. Still, she would be the best person for the job Finrod suggested (and she accepted) it’s a good way to channel her restlessness and energy.

The more things change the more they stay the same. People are being reborn but the Noldor are no nearer doing anything to free themselves and those who don’t agree with Idril just flee to the Valar who simply want the status quo maintained.

This is the danger with Idril’s sense of justice, yes, we often think punishment for punishment, but this can make those who oversee it cruel in themselves and no different to the ones they’re punishing. Certainly there were some who were unconscionable, and others like the women who killed herself, who were more victims of circumstance than actively wicked, so one size doesn’t fit all.

Poor Eärendi; nothing changes for him, either, although he has the ‘companionship’, of the Silmaril. Elenwë is the wisest one here and there may be more forward movement now, with her suggesting Finarfin and Finrod. Those advisors will be primarily loyal to Finarfin and Finrod, but they also have the fire of resistance that is lacking in Idril.

Author's Response:
"One can’t blame Aredhel for not wanting to remember the woman she was. She is more balanced here, and yet quite similar in her passions and selfishness."

Yes, I can't blame her either.  It's a lot to ask for someone to risk living with a mental illness all their life again.  Even though it is hard for Maeglin, it is the better choice for Aredhel.  In the end of her other life her mind had been overthrown by the illness and it was impossible for her to lead a normal life.  (But I won't say she's never going to remember tho :wink:)

" The more things change the more they stay the same. People are being reborn but the Noldor are no nearer doing anything to free themselves and those who don’t agree with Idril just flee to the Valar who simply want the status quo maintained."

Ah, this.  Very much.  At it has to be so frustrating for the rebels at this point, especially Finarfin and Elenwe who have been working for millennium only for so much to still feel the same.  It's a wonder they haven't grown cynical and written off all the Elves who are STILL content to let the Valar rule over them.  I have been feeling pretty frustrated with the political situation in my our country, and just want to bang my head on the wall or scream; it feels like we are stuck in an endless cycle and nothing changes, so I am feeling practically sorrow for the rebels right now!

" This is the danger with Idril’s sense of justice, yes, we often think punishment for punishment, but this can make those who oversee it cruel in themselves and no different to the ones they’re punishing. Certainly there were some who were unconscionable, and others like the women who killed herself, who were more victims of circumstance than actively wicked, so one size doesn’t fit all."

Yes, exactly.  And Idril even knew that too, she just couldn't bring herself to trust anyone to handle the sentencing up herself, yet didn't have time to dig to the truth like in a court case, and so everyone got stamped with one stamp and because a miscarriage of justice more than anything else.

Thank you for reviewing, Sian, even amidst everything you are going through right now.  I love you and I'm praying for you :::hugs:::


Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: February 19, 2020 0:35 · For: Chapter 21
What a great update! There’s a lot of new information to unpack here.

I thought that Idril insisted on personally controlling every aspect of her rule because she simply didn’t know how to delegate, but the real reason seems to be that she doesn’t trust anyone. Idril is right in thinking that a woman in power will be faced with a huge amount of criticism from the public, regardless of her actions. On the other hand, her distrust extends not only to the general public, but also to her family. This is very problematic, because a person in her position needs a support network. I think Idril’s queenship will have a very bad long-term impact on her mental health. I am feeling rather bad for her. She is in a situation where she cannot win… Well, she agreed to form the committees, which is a huge step forward, so we will see where she goes from here. I don’t know if the situation can still be salvaged, or if it is “too little, too late”. On a more positive note, Idril and Amarie is a pairing I was not expecting, but I am already rooting for them!

It’s interesting that Idril referred to Nerdanel as her kin. I assumed that Nerdanel was an outcast, being considered partially responsible for the actions of the Feanorians, so this is good news. Also, what are the Valar up to? They must be planning something for the Gondolindrim who escaped Idril’s “justice”. I doubt they provided aid to the Gondolindrim out of the goodness of their hearts.

Aredhel is being… herself, I guess. It seems that her personality “reset” to what it was in Valinor before the Exile, so her illness most likely isn’t cured, but dormant for now. A deterioration of her condition will probably always remain a possibility. That’s sad, but also very realistic.

I’m glad that Maeglin is making progress with the Valar’s mind enchantments. It’s about time! Is it wrong that I am feeling a vicious sort of satisfaction about Maeglin resisting Finrod’s attempts at friendship? I have officially lost my patience with Finrod. Killing Ulmo was his high point, and he’s been dropping in my estimation ever since. He needs to be slapped in the face with reality.

Earendil really isn’t in a good place mentally, and Idril is being very insensitive about it. Honestly, this is gut-wrenching; I wasn’t expecting Earendil to struggle so much.

Thanks, I enjoyed the chapter, though it was a rather bleak one overall. I think I say this in every review, but hopefully things will start to improve soon for the Elves :)

Author's Response:
Thank you, Merwinem, for the review! 

 

You are quite right that not having a support network, even with her family, is unhealthy, and we are seeing the strain it is having on Idril.  She withdrew into herself deeper and deeper, even stopped trusting in her mother's council, before events finally conspired to make her sit down and really  look at her mistake.  On the other hand tho, other than her mother, none of her family has been supportive either.  Finarfin withdrew from all politics but the rebellion and Finrod didn't want to have anything to do with them either, not to mention Aegnor dislikes her and Aredhel is also uninterested in either a connection with Idril or politics.  Idril might not have said it in so many words, but she was hurt and feeling abandoned by her family when she needed them most.  From Finarfin's POV tho, he couldn't support her reign because she has every intention of punishment the Feanorions with the same hand as the Gondolindhirm and he told her straight out that he wouldn't be a part of that.  And Finrod was in no place mentally to cope with being thrown into a political court until he'd healed some.  
"I think Idril’s queenship will have a very bad long-term impact on her mental health."
Yeah, I can see this.  Like I said above, she might not be voicing all that going on inside, but she's defiantly feeling isolated, and maybe even betrayed.  That's never healthy for anyone.  And now that a decision she's made has lead to a death, she might become even more obsessed with perfection, because mistakes get people killed.  But at least she's not trying to do everything by herself anymore.  At least she has her mother at her side and in her council once again.  Hopefully that will help alleviate the feeling of abandonment.

"On a more positive note, Idril and Amarie is a pairing I was not expecting, but I am already rooting for them!"

Oh they came at me from left-field!  I was just trying to write a friendship between the two, but all Idril's repression -sexual as well as emotional- took the reigns.  Whether or not she will ever admit to loving Amarie is another question tho.  She still has some internalized homophobia to work through, and by the time she does -if she does-- will Amarie still be hanging around waiting?  Amarie certainly desires her and wouldn't mind seeing what's lurking under all Idril's prim restraint, but she's not in love.  Not yet.

"It’s interesting that Idril referred to Nerdanel as her kin. I assumed that Nerdanel was an outcast, being considered partially responsible for the actions of the Feanorians, so this is good news."

Yeah, it's more that Nerdanel chose to withdraw herself.  First, after she left Feanor, she moved back in with her father and didn't return to Feanor's house until long after the Exiles had left and her sons started dying.  Idril does consider her kin, but she never really knew her, so it's hardly a meaningful relationship.  Maybe they will get to know each other in the future!  They could probably find common ground of feelings of isolation from their families....

"Also, what are the Valar up to?"

Good question!  We won't get to see what's up with them for some chapters, but for now Manwe is powering up on an Elven soul (it takes a while even after consuming the soul to rejuvenate to their old powers after so long fading).  But, with the Valar, I tend to think they have adopted a kind of slug-like response.  After existing for so many eons, they have lost touch with time and take a while to get to anything....they certainly took a long time to act in canon!

"Aredhel is being… herself, I guess. It seems that her personality “reset” to what it was in Valinor before the Exile, so her illness most likely isn’t cured, but dormant for now. A deterioration of her condition will probably always remain a possibility. That’s sad, but also very realistic."

Yes, dormant is exactly what it is.  So it could very well trigger again, but for now, she's the healthiest she's been since her childhood and feircly protective of that.  And I can't say I blame her.  Ardhel at the end of her life wasn't leading a fulfilling life.  Her bi-polar had gotten so bad she just swung from one extreme to the other, and endless cycle of depression and mania.

"I’m glad that Maeglin is making progress with the Valar’s mind enchantments. It’s about time!"

Yes, it was!  

"It’s about time! Is it wrong that I am feeling a vicious sort of satisfaction about Maeglin resisting Finrod’s attempts at friendship? I have officially lost my patience with Finrod. Killing Ulmo was his high point, and he’s been dropping in my estimation ever since. He needs to be slapped in the face with reality."

Lol.  Killing a Vala probably isn't something he can top :)  But, yeah, I feel you.  He's trauma has jumped to another level when he started taking his problems with Curufin out on Elmririon.  Let's hope he gets himself sorted out soon! (And not after he burns all his bridges down!)

"Earendil really isn’t in a good place mentally, and Idril is being very insensitive about it. Honestly, this is gut-wrenching; I wasn’t expecting Earendil to struggle so much."

Well he's had only a Simirril for companionship for millennium, so, yeah, it's bad for him right now.  Not as bad as Idril imagines tho.  To her, he's bestial, sliding into madness, but she failed to take into account how much her presence and attempts to justify her parenting brought out the worst in Eariendil.  Still tho, talking to a jewel for years and not having even the comfort of physical touch....geeze, he's going to be a mess when he finally gets out of there and starts trying to integrate with the rest of humanity again.

"Thanks, I enjoyed the chapter, though it was a rather bleak one overall. I think I say this in every review, but hopefully things will start to improve soon for the Elves :)"

Thank you :)  I understand you completely about the bleakness.  It took me forever to write because I just didn't like the way it felt to be in Idril's head-space, it was...cold.  Next chapter we finally get Celebrain and Caranthir! Whether their entrance will fundamentally change things in Valinor is yet to be seen :)



Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 18, 2020 21:12 · For: Chapter 21

I literally *squeaked* when I saw this in the most recent list! :D

First of all... I know Aredhel suffered some sort of depression, and that nobody truly understood her. No wonder she doesn't want to fall back to that person. I just feel sorry for Maeglin, who seem so out of place with a mother who doesn't remember him (worst, doesn't want to!). At least she has found some sort of peace? And dominating Aegnor, what better way to regain her confidence after what she went through with her past lovers? Reckless and carefree, yes, that's her. I only fear she won't allow herself emotional growth with all the denial, but I at least I understand her reasons.

Then we have Idril, someone I have never liked and can't manage to like her, no matter her ways of justice. I kind of have to agree with Eärendil about the self-righteousness. For someone who is almost mad and feral as a beast, he still has a lot to say (oh, Maglor, please come save him! </3). Besides, it gets on my nerves that she is unable to see that all good kings before her had councelors and listened to people. How can she be so arrogant? Grrr. I mean, I understand her as well, the period she "ruled" in Sirion and all, but I just can't like her hahaha sorry! I just wished she had a lesson in kingship with Gil-Galad, because I kept thinking about him ruling all those different factions and having to strengthen himself out of sheer will. But anyway, I'm glad she seemed to finally listen to other people and try to see how misjudged some of her judgments truly were.

And Amarië's poem? Oh, I never took your for a bard yourself! That was beautiful and reflected so well both of them! 

Anyway, well done! Already looking forward for more! ^^

 



Author's Response:
"First of all... I know Aredhel suffered some sort of depression, and that nobody truly understood her. No wonder she doesn't want to fall back to that person. I just feel sorry for Maeglin, who seem so out of place with a mother who doesn't remember him (worst, doesn't want to!)."

Yeah, she has bi-polar.  The thing about bi-polar is that it can be tricked in some people, but in others, even if you care a susceptibility to it, it can remain dormant all your life.  At this point it's dormant in her (there are also something else going on with this in the other Ardhel, but that has yet to be revealed!).  So right now, she's a woman who loves adventure and being on the move, loves laughter and the freedom of a hunt and the thrill of a hunt, but she doesn't suffer from the depressant and manic swings of bi-polar disorder.  I can totally understand why she'd not want to peel open that can of worms, but I too feel bad for Maeglin.  Thankfully he has Elmririon, and while Arehdle might not be his mother, she is still around and can grow into a friend/cousin figure.

"but I just can't like her hahaha sorry!"

Don't be sorry!  While I came to understand her through writing this chapter, I can't say I like her either.  There was such a sense of isolation and corseted-restrain when writing her.  I found my own posture reflecting it, sitting really straight and adopting more precise movements.  It was weird lol but man I wouldn't want to have lived everyday of my life trying to exercise such rigid control over my body, not to mention the mind as Idril does too!  I think of her and I think of Victoria ladies, confined in both their clothing and manner, not to mention society!  I can't help thinking gondolin ruined Idril.  I image she picked all that up from there, constantly aware of her every word and action being judged.  :shudders:

"I just wished she had a lesson in kingship with Gil-Galad, because I kept thinking about him ruling all those different factions and having to strengthen himself out of sheer will."

Oh, for sure.  Gil-galad managed to both have the same problems with repressing himself as she did and yet being a fantastic king.  He was great at compromising and getting people from vastly different cultures with old grudges to work together.  He just had that natural charisma that shown through even when he was at his worst of self-repression.

"And Amarië's poem? Oh, I never took your for a bard yourself! That was beautiful and reflected so well both of them!"

Oh no! :covers eyes: I meant to cut that!  I kept flip-flopping on if it was horrible or not lol thank you for letting me know you liked it :hugs: 



Name: mangacrack (Signed) · Date: February 18, 2020 20:56 · For: Chapter 21

OH, something I read just now and because it makes perfect sense: memories are fundamentally about preserving past warnings for future survival!

Which strikes me at odd when I think about how it applies to Idril. She mentioned the Fall of Gondolin in this chapter, but I get the feeling it never affected her that much. She is not traumatiesed by it. Rather, she strictly avoids the possibility that there could be war again. In her eyes, Eärendil's fate was a necessary sacrifice. 

The one thing that could truly shake her would be bloody riots in the streets she can't control or an assassin in her office. I have long thought about assassins in Valinor/among Elves. It would be glorious. Murder cases! Just think about it.



Author's Response:
"Which strikes me at odd when I think about how it applies to Idril. She mentioned the Fall of Gondolin in this chapter, but I get the feeling it never affected her that much. She is not traumatiesed by it. Rather, she strictly avoids the possibility that there could be war again. In her eyes, Eärendil's fate was a necessary sacrifice."

Hmm...you are right that Idril wasn't traumatized by Gondolin itself falling, but rather the death of Glorfindel, Turgon, everyone she had known for centuries.  She didn't love Gondolin like Turgon did, but nor did she chafed against its restrictions, wanting out.  So I image suddenly being thrust back into the real world was hard for her to adjust too after being lured into a false sense of peace.  But still, I'd say she was more grief-stricken by Glorfindel's death than traumatized.  Her greatest trauma was her role in ordering the deaths of those Wood-elves who were trying to escape Gondolin; that event shaped her from her core outwards -not in a good way tho; but then, it was a trauma.
I'm not sure she believes war will never happen again...more that she doesn't think it's a forgone conclusion like Caranthir, the Elves of Middle-earth, Finarfin, ect.  She doesn't trust the Valar and does despise what they did to the Vanyar, and she is determined to break-open Mandos, but she still thinks she might be able to achieve these things without war...I think it comes down to how young she was during the Exile.  She doesn't remember how much Fingolfin and his line were involved in the rebellion; she thinks the Valar might let them go as long as the Feanorions aren't allowed to start stirring things up again.  She does't want the Valar to have power over her or the Elves, but she thinks the Elves can still work around their rule without going to war against them.  Also, the very idea of going to war against the Valar will not enter her head because it would seem like madness, like suicide, to her.  She knows nothing of Celebraimbor's plans or Elrond and co.'s or really much of the Feanorions in general who she had very little personal contact with even before Gondolin closed its gates.  
But I can't see her being able to weather that storm as queen; she's simply not flexible enough nor experienced enough in war to be able to step into a leadership role even for the relatively small rebellion the Elves have going on in Valinor right now.  (So, hint, hint, she's not going to be queen indefinitely; but her time as queen will defiantly leave it's mark on her).

"I have long thought about assassins in Valinor/among Elves. It would be glorious. Murder cases! Just think about it."

I want, I want!!!  I would totally read that story.  You know, I've thought about time travel stories where someone -often a Feanrion of Fingolfin-- goes back in time and assassinates Morgoth...and then gets called up to the Ring of Doom by the Valar....but what about assassin Elves who sneak into Angband or Mordor?  Wouldn't that be a cool story?  Or (and don't kill me please!) someone assassinates Maedhros or one of the other Feanorions?  Maybe a survivor of Doriath, or maybe even before the second kingslaying but they just hate the Feanorions enough anyway, or maybe they are just following (Thingol's) orders?  The political turmoil!  

Thank you for much for the reviews :hugs:


Name: mangacrack (Signed) · Date: February 18, 2020 20:32 · For: Chapter 21

Oh how beautiful it is for Idril to leave her comfort zone. Well, not completely, she still has the safety on but at least there was a glimpse beyond. She still wants to be "right" and cannot stomach the thought of owningup to her beliefs regardless if others might view it as a mistake. 

Her interaction with Eärendil was beautiful, I love how far apart their are. How different their world is.

Eärendil's raw honesty is heartbreaking - and a sign of hope. It is a first step in the right direction.

Since Aredhel fits into the theme as well: I can understand her, being afraid of condamination. Even if she reopons the door, there is no guarantee that she will be understand that woman's perspective. She might have images to the knowledge, but no direct line between then and now. It feel like a reboot. Some knowledge has been lost but she is still the same woman.

I absolutely love how the rebirth/reembodiment affects everyone differently. In Aredhel's case it is obvious that she is still "new". There is not much experience in her new life to go on, especially for an Elf who are counted as mature around 100 years and even then they are still labeled as "young adults." It's good that Finrod is taking her seriously.

While Idril manages to be really old and even then her experiences do not qualify her as good regent, let alone as Queen of the Noldor. But I conceed that she is the one who needs to deal with aftermath of the slave-bonds. Though, I doubt she will ever have enough empathy to understand the issue at heart. She has never been owned or caged so throuroughly.



Author's Response:
Great to hear from you, Mangacrack!  I'm glad you enjoyed the chapter :)


"Well, not completely, she still has the safety on but at least there was a glimpse beyond. She still wants to be "right" and cannot stomach the thought of owningup to her beliefs regardless if others might view it as a mistake."

Oh, yes, Idril finds it almost impossible to admit she messed up.  It all goes back to that root trauma of ordering the Wood-elves' death in Gondolin by accident.  She doesn't think she's allowed to make mistakes, and that something truly horrible will happen if she does, so she continues in denial for as long as she can.  And tho she admits she made a mistake now, it still cost a life, so is it really going to be any easier in the future for her?  Hopefully she will start listening to wise council!

"Her interaction with Eärendil was beautiful, I love how far apart their are. How different their world is."

I like the way you describe them: worlds apart.  They really are.  I tried to get that feeling that they were talking at each other but were at such different places with such different views of the past that they couldn't reach the other.  I can't say that Eariendil's view of his childhood is exactly accurate, but nor is Idril's.  Earendil felt neglect and buckling pressure on his shoulders that Idril put there, while Idril looks back and remembers her own struggling in the aftermath of Gondolin's fall and that she tried the best she could.  

"Since Aredhel fits into the theme as well: I can understand her, being afraid of condamination. Even if she reopons the door, there is no guarantee that she will be understand that woman's perspective."

Yes, quite.  It's not that she doesn't want the memories of her first life, but, to her, the risk is not worth it.  She doesn't know what caused the other Aredhel to fall so deep into the sickness in her mind, and since it doesn't seem like anyone has a cure either, it's a huge risk to take.


"But I conceed that she is the one who needs to deal with aftermath of the slave-bonds. Though, I doubt she will ever have enough empathy to understand the issue at heart. She has never been owned or caged so throuroughly."

Ah, this is a good point!  I hadn't really thought of it like that; I just thought of how dedicated to justice would move quickly against the Gondolindhrim, but you are right that it seem right that she be the one to deal with the Gondolindhrim.  While she never approved of Gondolin's treatment of the Wood-elves, she did benefit from their oppression and didn't act as strongly against the oppression as she should have.  She allowed Turgon to placate her, and she kept the secret of the horrors down in Gondolin a long time (probably not wanted to have to answer the hard questions and confront the man Turgon had become).


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 18, 2020 13:38 · For: Chapter 1

Thank you :hugs:  And yes, I am right there with you!  It all comes down to the communication!  Like, things are never going to turn fluffy between these two, but right now they can’t see that they both want the same thing!  :fingers crossed for their rebirth: Only, you know I won’t make it THAT easy, will I :wink, wink:

 

I don't expect them to be fluffy, not really, but at least conversational LOL and I know you won't make it easy, which also makes me dread their reencounter, since R&U literally broke my heart. I don't think I can take that level of emotional damage anymore hahaha  (seriously, though, I can't remember it without a knot in my throat). And it's something your story does to me: I get so emotionally involved that sometimes I fear reading for what it'll do to the rest of my day - sometimes week lol.

 

Ha!  I am an evil tease! (I’m trying to get better at not spilling the beans and spoiling!)  I like how you point out all the relationships crossing over and through the others!  So true, and it only makes things more complicated :)  I think that when we’ve got immortal Elves on our hands, many/most of which have outlived at least one lover, it’s inevitable that they will end up with a tidy collection by the end (looking at you Glorfindel).  Almost all the characters have the potential for having more than one lover by the time this thing is through.  But I doubt I will write a relationship that’s, say, a threesome (tho I’m not saying one won’t pop up in the writing….oh wait one already did! Eol/Miriel/Finwe/Anneth….ok so, anything goes :throws confetti:), but what I’m trying to say is that I could see Fingon/Glorfindel or Maedhros/Maglor hooking up (or all four!), but I don’t see it being a long-term four-member romantic relationship, you know?

 

Gods, I’m explaining this so badly!  I hope it will just turn out better in the actually story!

 

No, you explained it just fine and of course I understood because that foursome is something that I envisioned and I'm kind of waiting for :grins: hahaha (especially because Glorfindel himself has that particular fantasy) Oh, poor Glorfindel, his heart will burst with joy if that ever comes to happen!

 

And yes, I understood they can have many lovers, but they will bind themselves with only one, like Erestor/Lindir, Maglor/Glorfindel - and I'm sure they don't know it, but it's possible that Fingon/Maedhros are bound at that depth as well, right? So I understand that they may have their fun, but willingly or not (and correct me if I'm wrong) there's only one that could completely feel the other's heart.



Author's Response:
"I don't expect them to be fluffy, not really, but at least conversational LOL and I know you won't make it easy, which also makes me dread their reencounter, since R&U literally broke my heart. I don't think I can take that level of emotional damage anymore hahaha  (seriously, though, I can't remember it without a knot in my throat). And it's something your story does to me: I get so emotionally involved that sometimes I fear reading for what it'll do to the rest of my day - sometimes week lol."

I feel like I should appoligize for inflicting tramuma on you lol  But I know what you mean, it's the beauty of stories :)  Sometimes it's just impossible to get them our of your heads!


"No, you explained it just fine and of course I understood because that foursome is something that I envisioned and I'm kind of waiting for :grins: hahaha (especially because Glorfindel himself has that particular fantasy) Oh, poor Glorfindel, his heart will burst with joy if that ever comes to happen!"

I'm not the only one, then!  Sometimes I wonder if I'm going crazy with all the pairing and sexual attractions but, hey, it would be boring if they didn't spice things up at times lol and how can I refuse them when they have been waiting millennium for this? lol

"- and I'm sure they don't know it, but it's possible that Fingon/Maedhros are bound at that depth as well, right? So I understand that they may have their fun, but willingly or not (and correct me if I'm wrong) there's only one that could completely feel the other's heart."

You are right that Fingon/Maedhros are also bound like that.  I think it depends on the character, honestly.  Like, for most I only see one person holding the place as life-partner, but other characters are more flexible.  It really depends on what that character needs...but the more I write these characters and realize exactly how long and complicated their lives and relationships have gotten, the easier it is to see them have meaningful relationships with multiple people (tho I do like them have that one central one in the middle, kind-of holding all the rest of them together).


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 18, 2020 13:20 · For: Chapter 13

You mean that he could be into guys?  Yeah, he’s defiantly bi.  And Caranthir being his brother won’t bother him.  It’s the state of his relationship with Caranthir that’s the problem.  Caranthir essentially spent centuries pushing Curufin away and often being quite nasty doing it.  There’s a lot of broken trust and pain there.  We will have to see if Curufin is willing to give Caranthir a chance to try and fix what he broke or not.  Curufin has a lot of his own issues to work on as well –this whole family needs mega therapy lol


 


Certainly! Curufin's rebirth is one of the most anticipated ones, because of all the people and emotions involved in his life.


 


Oh yes, gods, sometimes I just think how many problems can this people have, being so old and having so much time to reflect about their behavior and characteristics, it never ceases to amaze me how much damaged and utterly proud - that they "refuse" to look inside to mend the wounds - these people is xD nah, I'm kidding, but you know it's true hahhaha


 



Aww!  I’m glad to hear it :) I was just thinking the other day about Eluréd, and was trying to pin down hobbies/interests/get a fully scope of his character, and I realized he doesn’t have any.  Not really.  He has the potential to have some –like I image he’d be into sewing/embroidery after his time with the Haladin—but his life has been about survival and trying not to drown under the weight of everything he’s been through up to now.  He’s a CSA survivor, and will carry those scars always, but I hope Caranthir/others he meets in Valinor will be able to help him find who he is outside of what has been done to him.


 


I think it's awesome that Eluréd is a total mystery, fey and unpredictable! That's why his relation with Caranthir seems all the more special. He let himself be taken care of, I think this is the first and most important step for "healing" he can have - though I think he will never be fully healed.



Author's Response:
""Certainly! Curufin's rebirth is one of the most anticipated ones, because of all the people and emotions involved in his life."
Haha!  I'm glad to hear it!  He's one of the one's I'm more exctied to get to too!  There is so much of his story left to tell and a lot of character development that needs to come.

"Oh yes, gods, sometimes I just think how many problems can this people have, being so old and having so much time to reflect about their behavior and characteristics, it never ceases to amaze me how much damaged and utterly proud - that they "refuse" to look inside to mend the wounds - these people is xD nah, I'm kidding, but you know it's true hahhaha"

I get you.  I think its the challenge of trying to write an immortal character when we ourselves are mortal.  It's hard to grasp that immense length of time.  But I think, for me, it's important to remember their crazy good memories on top of this.  If they were Human immortals, their memories would fade with time, but as they don't, I think it's even harder for them to grow because nothing is ever forgotten, the sharp edges of grief is not rounded with time, that makes it a lot harder to move past things and look to the future when the past seems so close.

"I think it's awesome that Eluréd is a total mystery, fey and unpredictable! That's why his relation with Caranthir seems all the more special. He let himself be taken care of, I think this is the first and most important step for "healing" he can have - though I think he will never be fully healed."

I think you are right: he will never be filly healed.  I love that he comes off as fey and mysterious!  And yeah, the very fact that it's almost impossible for him to let other people in (right now at least), makes his relationship with Caranthir all the more precious.  I mean, when you think about it, it was one of the very people who set his brother and him into the downward spiral of their first life, a Feanorion, that he comes to trust.  I just wish I could promise some kind of happy ending where he is healthy and living his life to the fullest, but I don't think I can :(  But there will be hope!  There always has to be hope :)


Name: FirstAmazon (Signed) · Date: February 14, 2020 18:15 · For: Chapter 20

Amazing two chapters, Beth! I'm loving all the interactions between Finarfin and Finrod, and then seeing fiery, fierce Aegnor. Of course, Maeglin and Elmírion, but I can't help thinking their relation will be somehow damaged when all Maeglin's memories come back, or when Celebrimbor is reborn. I recall Maeglin was one of the few people he ever loved (if not the only one), and seeing him involved with his son will be very... weird hahaha no doubt he will feel betrayed (again) :(


Finrod looked away from the intimate moment, and found his father watching the pair with tenderness and sorrow, as if he looked not only on what was, but what could have been as he gazed at the descendents of his two proud brothers.


THIS. My god, breaking my heart into a million pieces - as you so frequently do. And this, coming from the "outsider" Finarfin is so beautiful, so redemptive! He doesn't hold any grudges, only loneliness. Oh, I love whom he has become!


And he's encounter with Turgon was shocking! All the tension, poor Finarfin! But even if I wish Turgon punished for what he did, I'm sure he went to speak on Maeglin's behalf, which is already something good. (Plus, is Turgon even higher than Maedhros? This is something I never foresaw!). 


You have me on the edge of my seat! Can't wait to see what's next!



Author's Response:
"Amazing two chapters, Beth!"
Thank you :)  
Of course, Maeglin and Elmírion, but I can't help thinking their relation will be somehow damaged when all Maeglin's memories come back, or when Celebrimbor is reborn. I recall Maeglin was one of the few people he ever loved (if not the only one), and seeing him involved with his son will be very... weird hahaha no doubt he will feel betrayed (again) :("

I confess, I hadn't thought of their relationship being damaged with Maeglin's memories -or Elmirion's-- since they never knew each other before, but Maeglin IS going to have process what happened to him.  He was tortured and he does feel a great guilt for not being 'stronger,' but Elmririon will be right there by his side.  You are correct tho that Celebraibor had a bit of a thing for Maeglin :wink: and only didn't act on it because he knew he would leave Gondolin, so that wouldn't have been fair to Maeglin.  But Celebrimbor didn't feel like Maeglin was his, nor can I see him envious of Elmririon.  To Cleebrimbor, Elmiriron is everything that is good and pure, and deserves the best, while Celebrimbor will not beleive the same for himself, not until he heals from the guilt of opening his home to his son's murderer -not to mention when he hears about what forging the Rings led to!  Poor Celebrimbor!  

"Oh, I love whom he has become!"

I love hearing this!  He's grown into such a lovely person, I want everyone to see it -and they will!  Well, most will, I can't say if Finwe or Indis will get their heads on straight.

"But even if I wish Turgon punished for what he did, I'm sure he went to speak on Maeglin's behalf, which is already something good."

Yeah.  He gets one point for speaking up for Maeglin, but minus a thousand for the shit he did to Finarfin!  (And yet, Finarfin would forgive him if he believed it would help get their family back.  Turgon doesn't deserve to kiss Finarfin's feet.)

(Plus, is Turgon even higher than Maedhros? This is something I never foresaw!). "

Ah, well, you might be right.  Is Maedhros described as the tallest Finweion?  I just remember that Turgon was Very tall, so maybe Turgon is 2nd place.

You have me on the edge of my seat! Can't wait to see what's next!"

I finally have a new chapter out :hand flourishes: enjoy :)



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