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Friendship Amidst Loss by KimicThranduilion Teen
When Legolas and his troop become targets for slave traders tragedy strikes and the Prince suffers a devastating loss after...
~ Fragments of Fate And Fire ~ by Spiced Wine Mature
This will be a collection of fics, commissioned art, and gapfillers to flesh out events within my Dark Prince/Magnificat...
The Prince and the Dragon by Lumeriel Mature
"The day that Nolofinwë heard the story of the Beast from his nanny's mouth, it was also the first time he heard about his...
~ The Once and Future Kings ~ by Spiced Wine Explicit
After the destruction of the old universe, Vanimórë, sitting outside ‘Time’ in the ‘Monument’...
Garmonbozia-(Pain and sorrow) by astorey_91 Explicit
How Namo treats the fëar in his care (dark!Namo AU)And how two maiar get caught up in it.
Fragments from Middle-earth by Linda Hoyland General Audiences
Ficlets of under 1000 words written for past BTMEM Challenges. They feature mostly Aragorn, Faramir, Halbarad and OCs
Two shores of the lake by Lumeriel Explicit
Once again, the families of Fëanor and Fingolfin live separated by a lake. After being reborn, both families find a way...

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Karlmir Stonewain
09/22/19 08:50 pm
Thanks, Ziggy. Things are bit hectic around the house at the moment. I'm presently having a 3-stop pneumatic elevator installed. Lots of carpentry noise. Too distracting for me to work on stories.
ziggy
09/21/19 10:29 pm
Good to see you back Karlmir! Sounds like you are having loads of fun!!
Karlmir Stonewain
09/21/19 04:32 pm
Sorry I haven't been around here for so long. Lots of health issues and the vicissitudes of old age. I've been working on a few stories, but my main interests now are movies, food and Mahjong.
Spiced Wine
09/14/19 11:07 pm
Welcome, Mairen :)
Spiced Wine
09/13/19 09:18 am
Happy Friday, everyone \o/
Spiced Wine
09/12/19 07:13 pm
Astorey, could you email me using the contact form and I can tell you about how to put pics onto a fic?
Spiced Wine
09/11/19 08:30 pm
Nelya — Sorry, that would be Estiel’s purview; Narya and I can’t do that
Spiced Wine
09/11/19 08:29 pm
Most of the free hosting sites are being closed, but I can host one for you, if you like
Spiced Wine
09/11/19 08:29 pm
Astorey— yes, of course it is. You have to first host the image so you can obtain a code for it.
astorey_91
09/10/19 01:56 pm
If it’s okay to ask, is there a way to add pictures to a fic that is posted?
Shout Archive



Name: Caunedhiel (Signed) · Date: July 01, 2019 23:56 · For: Chapter 18
I have just finished re-reading your price of vengeance series, I had forgotten how much I love your verse and the way you bring all the characters to life! So fantastic

I especially love the characters you write that don't get a look in much like amras, amrod and gildor. You flesh them out so well. You really make the cultures come alive!!

Please keep writing, I cannot wait to read more of your wonderful stories. Also very happy to see elmirion again, I would love to see a scene between him and nerdanel xx

Author's Response:

Thank you so much for the review, Caunedhiel!  It feels so wonderful to hear you are still enjoying the story :)  It is just so uplifting to hear, and I you keep me motivated to start writing again!  I'm glad you like Elmirion's return, and you are spot on that he will be meeting Nerdanel.  We haven't seen her for awhile, since she's not involved in politics right now, but the first hint of one of her decedents being reborn will bring her back.

Thank you again for the encouraging review :hugs:  I hope this finds you doing well :)



Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: May 01, 2019 18:19 · For: Chapter 18
I’m so happy to see that you’ve updated! It was a welcome distraction after a very hectic week.

Turgon is a mess, but he seems to be starting to re-examine some of his long-held beliefs. Quite honestly, I don’t want him anywhere near Elenwe, even if he repents. There were problems in their relationship even before she found out about Gondolin. For one thing, Turgon was being very controlling. Secondly, he is in love with the person Elenwe was before the Darkening. I suppose Turgon could get to know the new Elenwe and learn to love her, but would she love him back? In any case, he has a long way to go (assuming redemption is what you have in mind for him). Also, the last couple of paragraphs of the chapter made me think he might be fading…

The way Turgon thinks of Earendil is just … wrong. The funny thing is that I don’t think Turgon had expressed any desire to even meet Earendil. In Turgon’s mind Earendil’s only value is that of a “saviour”. I don’t think he even realizes that Earendil is an actual person. Earendil has been forced to sail the skies every night for the past seven millennia, and we know that being up there high above the ground absolutely terrifies him. And it was Turgon’s choices that doomed his own grandson to this fate. Neither Idril nor Turgon seem to understand that “Earendil the Saviour” is nothing more than a piece on the Valar’s chessboard, whose only purpose is to be an object of worship for the other Elves and to keep them from causing too much trouble. It’s frustrating that so many Elves still cling in the Valar’s false narrative. I can attribute Turgon’s lack of critical thinking on this subject to his relatively recent rebirth and all the ensuing drama, but Idril certainly had plenty of time to analyse the situation and come to the right conclusions - after all this time she should know better. I guess this is a general criticism of the Valinor Elves and the surviving Exiles who sailed back after the War of Wrath – they sat around for Ages not getting anything done – they cannot even see the glaring problem right in front of them.

The Valinor Noldor are absolutely vile. Their presumed moral superiority is really over the top. This chapter makes me feel so torn: on the one hand I dislike Turgon, but on the other hand his master’s family are absolute s**ts. I’m so glad Maeglin escaped from that awful situation. The way the master’s family was treating him echoed the way the Gondolindrim were treating him back in Beleriand, which has all sorts of terrible implications.

After the previous chapter I expected Elmirion to go to the royal palace to look for Maeglin and I was picturing all the horrors that would await him there. Thank god you decided to go another route. I guess Elmirion was suspicious enough to avoid the palace – which makes sense, because he obviously isn’t an idiot. I am curious how he found Maeglin, though. Didn’t Idril say that Maeglin’s location was a secret? Maybe Elmirion was stubborn enough to check every single household in Valinor until he found the right one :)

Thanks for the chapter! I’m looking forward to finding out what Elmirion and Maeglin will do next. For some reason, I’m dying to know what happened at Cuivienen after Caranthir and the twins left, and I’m not even sure *why* I care so much about Thingol’s awful family :)

Author's Response:
"I’m so happy to see that you’ve updated! It was a welcome distraction after a very hectic week."

I am glad to hear it!  And thank you for the fabulous review!

"Quite honestly, I don’t want him anywhere near Elenwe, even if he repents. There were problems in their relationship even before she found out about Gondolin. For one thing, Turgon was being very controlling. Secondly, he is in love with the person Elenwe was before the Darkening."

I agree with you completely!  Their relationship wasn't healthy.  She felt suffocated, since Turgon wanted her to be the person she no longer was, and Turgon felt insecure (even if he didn't admit it to himself) because he could feel the tension between them -which caused him to cling on to her all the more, afraid of loosing her, which just exasperated the problem!  As for is Turgon could learn to love him again, hmm...it would have to take some serious change on Turgon's part, not only facing the truth of what he did in Gondolin, but understanding and accepting that Elewne is never going to be the woman she was once.  I think, if she could learn to love him again, he would have no problem loving her again, since Turgon's main thing is feeling second best/not worth loving. His heart would turn to the new her if it just knew there was love there waiting for him.  It might seem desperate of him to love someone back just because they love you, but love can be a choice.  It is hard work, and Turgon would be ready and willing to put the work in if he knew his love would be reciprocated.  He doesn't NEED Elwene to be as submissive as she once was, he loves Arehdel and Idril and they are not submissive women, he just needs to learn how to let his jealousy and possessiveness go.  The major problem tho is will Elewne and Turgon get on the same page long enough to see there is still something worth building between them, or will Turgon assume Elwene no longer loves him, and Elwene never shows differently because she and Turgon never have a real conversation about this until too much time has past?  We could see Elenwe is lonely and wants an intimate romantic relationship again -she reached out to Finarfin when everything was falling through with Turgon-- she might not still be there for Turgon to re-connect with if he takes too long to face the truth.

" In any case, he has a long way to go (assuming redemption is what you have in mind for him). Also, the last couple of paragraphs of the chapter made me think he might be fading…"

How interesting that you got the impression he was fading!  I hadn't had that in mind, but he is feeling incredibly isolated at the moment.  But I think he's too stubbornly holding on to his delusions of being the misunderstood good guy to allow himself to fade.  But maybe, when he actually faces the truth of what he did, that will be a danger!  As for if he keeps going on the path of redemption, that will be up to him.  I am not sure if he has it in him, since redemption is one of the hardest things a character can go through.  Does Turgon has the strength of character?  Or will he shy away before the end?  We shall see!

"The way Turgon thinks of Earendil is just … wrong. The funny thing is that I don’t think Turgon had expressed any desire to even meet Earendil. In Turgon’s mind Earendil’s only value is that of a “saviour”. I don’t think he even realizes that Earendil is an actual person."

Hard yes on this!  I actually have an eventual meeting between these two planned :rubs hands:

"but Idril certainly had plenty of time to analyze the situation and come to the right conclusions - after all this time she should know better."

I think for Idril's, it's knowing (at least partly) that Eariendil is suffering because of her choices, that makes her cling to the mantra that this was necessary, because it makes the pain have a meaning besides just pointless cruelty.  It's not that she doesn't know this is the Valar's doing, and she doesn't have any love lost on the Valar, but when she thinks of the Great Song as a whole, she still sees Earendil as the savior, and Eariendil's suffering as the price for the world's salvation.  If she could do it all again, she would choose differently, but as she can't, she comforts herself by saying that Eariendil's pain is the price for saving the world, and tho she wishes she could take it back, she can't.

"After the previous chapter I expected Elmirion to go to the royal palace to look for Maeglin and I was picturing all the horrors that would await him there. Thank god you decided to go another route. I guess Elmirion was suspicious enough to avoid the palace – which makes sense, because he obviously isn’t an idiot. I am curious how he found Maeglin, though. Didn’t Idril say that Maeglin’s location was a secret? Maybe Elmirion was stubborn enough to check every single household in Valinor until he found the right one :)"

It was sheer stubbornness, just like you suspected.  The length of time Maeglin has been stuck at that farm isn't clear in Turgon's POV, but it's been months -enough time for Elmirion to track Maeglin down by literally going farm to farm.  That kid is tenacious!  It would have been such a disaster if he'd gone to the palace!  But he heard rumors in the street of Maeglin's sentencing, and didn't know he personally had any reason to believe he'd be able to get an audience with royalty, so didn't approach the palace.

"For some reason, I’m dying to know what happened at Cuivienen after Caranthir and the twins left, and I’m not even sure *why* I care so much about Thingol’s awful family :)"

I'm glad to hear this!  I have more planned for Cuivienen!  There are lots of politics involved, I'm not that confident in my ability to write good political intrigue, and we will see it all from an outsider's POV so I'm not sure how much we will see of what's going on behind the scenes, but there is a power struggle going on right now, and we will see who comes out on top!

Thank you so much for the review!  You always know just what to ask to get me thinking about the story from another POV!


Name: kasura (Signed) · Date: April 29, 2019 8:55 · For: Chapter 18
I wasn't expecting this inner delving of Turgon's basket of insecurities and imagined slights by Fingolfin and his siblings...Whoa. He has that sensitive, prickly personality that everyone has to tiptoe around - everything has to go his ways or you're doing him wrong. His mind, honestly, is his worst enemy, keeps conjuring imagined slights by his dad or Fingon - he must be the less loved son, he must be the boring brother...and I have a hard time believing Fingolfin loves Turgon a lot less than Fingon. Maybe Fingolfin's personality hangs better with Fingon, but that doesn't mean he is loving Turgon less.

It's not surprising a naive Elenwe in Valinor can love someone like Turgon - not the Elenwe who's reborn and wise and seen the war. she has moved on.

Am hoping this is the breaking point where Turgon starts to change himself, to introspect, and going on his path of redemption. I do blame Idril for not helping Turgon climbing out of his black holes. She's his daughter, she must have some clues of Turgon's inner demons back when they were in Gondolin, but now she doesn't offer any real help to help his mind to get better. In fact, I think she and other elves in Valinor are not aware of traumas persisting in these Reborn elves, and don't understand they need therapy to get better!!! I am not sure if she as the Queen is doing much in investing in resources to help the Reborns beyond clothing and feeding them.

Turgon's co dependency on Elenwe is not healthy. Great to see he's not a one dimensional character. The way you wrote the interactions between him and Maeglin is great!!! I am not sure if Turgon can change, I hope he can. He has been holding on to his righteous beliefs and nursing his imagined injuries - because if he doesn't, what else does he have that he can feel superior to Fingon and the Feanorions?

I love this chapter! Turgon finally realizes Maeglin is a noble man (elf), and he did Maeglin evil back in Gondolin. And now Maeglin has his memories back, will he be able to Elmirion regain his memory? Does Maeglin think Elmirion is Celebrimbor when he first saw Elmirion after regaining his memories, since celebrimbor and Elmirion look alike?

Soooo looking forward to new chapters :)

Author's Response:

"His mind, honestly, is his worst enemy, keeps conjuring imagined slights by his dad or Fingon - he must be the less loved son, he must be the boring brother...and I have a hard time believing Fingolfin loves Turgon a lot less than Fingon. Maybe Fingolfin's personality hangs better with Fingon, but that doesn't mean he is loving Turgon less."

Yes, this exactly!  His mind really is his worst enemy, and so much of what he allowed to grow into resentment in him were him seeing things that weren't there.  Just like you said, Fingolfin loves all his kids, but Turgon couldn't see that because he was always comparing himself to Fingon and thinking he fell short.  It didn't help that most people in Tirion (and even other relatives) preferred Fingon to him as a child.  He was reserved and loved books more then childhood games; he didn't have Fingon's outgoing personality.  People loved Fingon, and Turgon felt left behind.  He was jealous of all the attention Fingon received, as well as jealous for Fingon's attention to be on him.  It's sad because when we saw from Fingon's POV, he compared himself to Turgon and thought it was him who fell short.  I think it was just a case of two brothers with vastly different personalities, and instead of learning how to appreciate their differences as adults and forming a relationship, they kept pulling further and further apart.

"Am hoping this is the breaking point where Turgon starts to change himself, to introspect, and going on his path of redemption."

I think this was the first step towards breaking out of his delusions, but Turgon isn't quite ready to face the truth.  Facing the truth of what he did is going to be the hardest thing he ever does, well see if he has the fortitude to endure it!

"I do blame Idril for not helping Turgon climbing out of his black holes. She's his daughter, she must have some clues of Turgon's inner demons back when they were in Gondolin, but now she doesn't offer any real help to help his mind to get better. In fact, I think she and other elves in Valinor are not aware of traumas persisting in these Reborn elves, and don't understand they need therapy to get better!!! I am not sure if she as the Queen is doing much in investing in resources to help the Reborns beyond clothing and feeding them."

You are right, the Elves in Valinor don't understand the need for therapy, it's a serious gap in their understanding of healing, but the Elves who lived through the wars of Beleriand have a better idea of mental health -tho not what we have today.  You'd think Idril would be part of this group, but just because the information is available doesn't mean she's educated herself.  She strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't put a lot of store in mental health, rather thinking she/ other's should be able to plow through.  But Idril has quite a few things to learn before her story is done.

"I am not sure if Turgon can change, I hope he can. He has been holding on to his righteous beliefs and nursing his imagined injuries - because if he doesn't, what else does he have that he can feel superior to Fingon and the Feanorions?"

I am not sure Turgon has it in him to change either.  Redemption isn't redemption if it doesn't hurt.  Can Turgon really face the truth of himself?  After so long living in the world her created in his own head where he was the wronged, misunderstood hero?  Not only does he have to face that what he did in Gondolin was horrible, but he has to realize that the resentments he's been carrying around since childhood are based on hot air.  The world he's living in inside his head is so skewed from reality, but I do hope he can find the strength to face himself.  If he can't, he's going to keep gnawing on his bitterness and be alone forever.

 "I love this chapter! Turgon finally realizes Maeglin is a noble man (elf), and he did Maeglin evil back in Gondolin. And now Maeglin has his memories back, will he be able to Elmirion regain his memory? Does Maeglin think Elmirion is Celebrimbor when he first saw Elmirion after regaining his memories, since celebrimbor and Elmirion look alike?"

Yay!  I am glad you liked the chapter!  It was one I was really nervous about, being all from Turgon's POV.  I was worried, because he's not a fav, that readers would find it dull.  So the lovely reviews this chapter mean an extra lot to me :hugs:  I do envision Maeglin helping Elmirion regain his memories (and helping Angrod too!  As well as others).  I hadn't thought about Maeglin getting Elmirion and Celebrimbor confused, but I can see it!  if only for a moment, which leads me to believe he was trying to puzzle out who Elmirion was before Turgon made the comment about a Feanorion, and now, knowing others are seeing what he's seeing, he'll be more sure than ever that Elmirion is somehow related to his lost friend, as well as his own cousin :)  Meaglin won't be the only one mistaking Elmirion for another Feanorion :grins:  I am sure that would be quite the shock to think the Valar were letting loose the sons of Feanor!



Name: mangacrack (Signed) · Date: April 28, 2019 13:51 · For: Chapter 18

I was too sleep deprived to read and review the new chapter yesterday evening, so here it is. I think it's amazing, because we get to see so much of Turgon's psychosis. He's a good example of building things the wrong way and then trying to fix the consequences of a faulty foundation. After an eternity of living with it, it's no surprise he struggles with tearing down his mind, his personality, his history. For people like Turgon Elves should have regular psych evals, daily mediation to check if you are still right in your mind.

Obviously Turgon isn't ready to live. Did the Valar release him too early? Or does Namo care at all who is ready to move on?

So, yes. Please more of Turgon losing his mind, comparing Maeglin to Fingon. Adressing his father and his serious issues with how he sees himself vs how others see him. Currently I'm curious how much Fingolfin is truly to blame for the stuff Turgon did, if it was his fault in the beginning for favouring Fingon or if it's just Turgon's screwed perspective. I wonder, does Fingon's first son plays a role as well? If I remember correctly he had a son, born out of wedlock and yet his reputation never truly suffered from it.

Maeglin. Yes. Keep going, you are doing well.

Also: how did I miss that Maeglin's friend is Elemirion? Did I forget or was it not just that obvious to the reader until now?

*doesn't truly care because now I am screaming about Fingolfin's and Feanor's line being reunited. It's a beginning and IF there's someone who can be a true friend to Maeglin than it's Elemirion.

Ps. I also understimated how much of Turgon's personality is built on Elenwe. Like a wall, like a block or a fake floor that buried all fears, nightmares and uncertainties beneath it. Now, with Elenwe gone, it all comes back with a vengeance and Turgon stands on the rubble of his former life - because it's all been a lie.



Author's Response:
I am SO pleased you liked the chapter!  I was pretty nervous about this one, coming all from the POV of someone who is hardly a reader favorite, I feared few would be interested.  So it means a lot to hear you enjoyed it!  You are right, people like Turgon really could have benefited from some psych evals!

"Obviously Turgon isn't ready to live. Did the Valar release him too early? Or does Namo care at all who is ready to move on?"
Well, if I thought he'd receive anything like healing in Mandos, I'd say he needed more time in the halls.  But in this story they aren't a place of healing, so rebirth really was the best option for him.  It would have been better of course, if he'd been reborn with Fingolfin or Fingon and he could have had a confrontation with them and maybe had the delusions stripped from his mind earlier -but then again maybe not.  I don't think he can hear the truth from them.

"Currently I'm curious how much Fingolfin is truly to blame for the stuff Turgon did, if it was his fault in the beginning for favoring Fingon or if it's just Turgon's screwed perspective."

I think it's Turgon's skewed perspective.  Fingolfin found it easier to connect with Fingon because they are so alike, but in Valinor he loved all his children equally.  But Turgon withdrew from him, feeling overlooked/slighted for Fingon, and built walls between them, which just contributed more to the feelings of being second best because it was hard for Fingolfin to reach him through the walls and so they grew further apart.
"I wonder, does Fingon's first son plays a role as well? If I remember correctly he had a son, born out of wedlock and yet his reputation never truly suffered from it."

A good question, and it no doubt continued to feed the fire, but Turgon was already jealous and resentful long before Fingon's son entered the picture.

"Also: how did I miss that Maeglin's friend is Elemirion? Did I forget or was it not just that obvious to the reader until now?"
Well, Elmirion doesn't remember his name yet, so he's just been referred to as Maeglin's friend, so easy to miss the connection :)  And yes, Elmirion is a great friend for Maeglin to have, and the other way around.  They have so much in common.

"Ps. I also understimated how much of Turgon's personality is built on Elenwe. Like a wall, like a block or a fake floor that buried all fears, nightmares and uncertainties beneath it. Now, with Elenwe gone, it all comes back with a vengeance and Turgon stands on the rubble of his former life - because it's all been a lie."

Yes, you are so right.  I think he did this to himself after Elenwe died and he lost himself in his grief.  She was the person he felt accepted and loved him as no one else ever had.  She was the best thing that ever happened to him, and he began to feel their love was this holy thing that, as long as he kept pure and undiminished, meant he, Turgon, was untainted by everything that he allowed to happen in Gondolin.  He tied his very self-worth into his love for Elenwe/ his idealized image of who she'd been, that her rejection of him is something he can't accept because that would mean that he, as a person, is not worth loving.  So it all ties into his desperation to cling on to his delusions of who he is/what he's done.  He can't face the truth, and everything comes crumbling down.


Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: April 28, 2019 11:05 · For: Chapter 18

Wow, that was an amazing chapter, and gut-wrenching too.


I am almost sorry for Turgon, if he were not so stubborn in his adherence to his conviction he was doing the right thing.

But this is a superb exploration of Maeglin growing into himself, even through the awful dreams and the horrific recollection of torture in Angband, and surmounting it, whereas Turgon, although it seemed hopeful at first, is really looking for ghosts in Maeglin: Fingon, Aredhel, Fingolfin. Looking for all the ways he was slighted and ignored and let down. Mired in the past, wanting everything just to be the way it was when he had his wife and daughter. 

He has such a massive wound to deal with here, but much of it seems self-inflicted to me. Fingolfin loved all his children, but Turgon seems to insist to himself that Fingon was the favourite, the apple of his father’s eye.

I do think Fingolfin was closer to Fingon (certainly spriritually) and, when he was young, was very like him, before he began drawing on all those masks, all that control, but Turgon was not an unloved son, he distanced himself, made himself become so, wound himself around his own family, even in Tirion, not just when he left to found Gondolin, which almost became like a substitute for his family, something he adored and clung to, secret, hidden away, like a poincindis wife!

 

I note that when crossing the Helxaraxë, he didn’t put himself out as Fingon and Fingolfin did, to help people. He was just there for his wife and daughter. He simply didn’t have it in him to be a true leader, a true king at all. So that either goes back to childhood, or he just never did have that quality. Some people don’t. There is no real ‘greatness’ there. If he was a good man, he would make a good second in command probably, as he follows orders (or the Valar’s advice/order) but is rather lacking in imagination. 

And he still considers what he does was justified, and until he accepts it was evil, he can’t move on. It is no good finding comfort in Maeglin’s presence only when Maeglin remembered nothing! As soon as he ‘lost his innocence’ (in Turgon’s eyes) remembering Gondolin, Turgon immediately goes on the defensive. He does not want naysayers around him, only people who bow to his wisdom and don’t question. Only a weak man would be content with that kind of unquestioning servility. 

But while he slipped backward into almost insanity (seeing Maedhros in Elmirion, Fingon in Maeglin, which, my goodness! Says a great deal about his problem with the Fëanorions, god knows what he would be like if he had ever known or guessed his father loved Fëanor!) Maeglin has pulled himself up and flowers, taking up his crafts, hunting, reclaiming part of his own heritage. 

There is something in Turgon that is never willing to share, is there? Fingon loving Maedhros (even as a youth) probably began that, but he always wanted to tuck people close and not allow them to look away from him. THAT is something he has to surmount and confront: the fact that people are not his possessions and can love him as well as others. No wonder he chose Elenwë who in her first incarnation was yes and amen to everything he said! I just wonder if he loved that about her and would find her rather different now. He seems to love ideals rather than people. He wanted and ideal bother and sister and father; they were not allowed to be individuals. 


And it was lovely to see that Elmirion did search for Maeglin! <3 I had wondered, but didn’t think a Fëanorion would have nothing to say about his friend disappearing. I wonder where they’ll go now they’ve (in a way) escaped being watched?

Absolutely brilliant chapter, Encairion! Gorgeous!



Author's Response:
I am so happy to hear you enjoyed the chapter!  I was nervous about this one.  Not only was it from Turgon's POV, but I wrote it differently then I ever had before -in these bite-sized increments.  It gave the writing a different feel.

"I am almost sorry for Turgon, if he were not so stubborn in his adherence to his conviction he was doing the right thing."

Good!  This is just the feeling I was hoping for, and while writing it I felt similar.  I got really emotional in some parts, but then I'd remember that he did it to himself!

"and surmounting it, whereas Turgon, although it seemed hopeful at first, is really looking for ghosts in Maeglin: Fingon, Aredhel, Fingolfin. Looking for all the ways he was slighted and ignored and let down."

Yes, you really hit the nail on the head, contrasting the two of them's recovery.  For a time it did seem like Turgon would start taking some serious strides towards change, but in the end he didn't have it in him to brake through that wall of denial -or at least not yet.  We could see how the delusion of everything for the 'greater good' was shaken at times and Turgon felt the discomfort of the truth knocking at his door, but he clung to the lie in the end because it was so much harder to face the truth -and face the truth of himself.

"but Turgon was not an unloved son, he distanced himself, made himself become so, wound himself around his own family, even in Tirion, not just when he left to found Gondolin, which almost became like a substitute for his family, something he adored and clung to, secret, hidden away, like a poincindis wife!"

Oh, I really like this comparison of Gondolin to a poincindis wife!  And yes, I think you have it spot on with Turgon's relationship with Fingolfin.  Fingolfin DID love him, but it was Turgon who pulled away first, and then blamed the distance on Fingolfin.  While Fingolfin did find it easiest to understand Fingon, I think the really wrench in Turgon's relationship with both of them was that Fingon was more loved by so many other people -even others in their family- that Turgon thought Fingolfin must love Fingon more because everyone else did.  It wasn't Fingolfin who made Turgon feel second best, but the people of Tirion who preferred the outgoing, friendly prince to the shier, bookish one.

"And he still considers what he does was justified, and until he accepts it was evil, hecan’tmove on. It is no good finding comfort in Maeglin’s presence only when Maeglin remembered nothing!"

Yes, this exactly!  He has to face the truth, and right now he's still burying his hand in the sand.  It's not going to be easy to look in the mirror and see the truth, Turgon is TERRIFIED of all his justifications falling empty because that would mean everything Maeglin said was true, that what he allowed to happened to the Wood-elves was no better than what Morgoth would have done to them.  He wants -needs- to believe he is a good man who made the right choices.  Until he can face the truth, he's going to keep clinging to his delusions. 

"There is something in Turgon that is never willing to share, is there? Fingon loving Maedhros (even as a youth) probably began that, but he always wanted to tuck people close and not allow them to look away from him. THAT is something he has to surmount and confront: the fact that people are not his possessions and can love him as well as others. No wonder he chose Elenwë who in her first incarnation was yes and amen to everything he said! I just wonder if he loved that about her and would find her rather different now."

Good point about Elenwe!  While I do think he loved the person she once was fully, the only reason he didn't come to resent her (or Idril either) was because he never saw them as choosing someone else above him, loving them more.  I don't think he's incapable of sharing, but he can't stand the feeling of being loved less.  It's a serious cause of self-doubt in him.  He has spent so long feeling like second best that he needed his wife to show him he was the first in her heart (which is understandable since she was his wife, and one assumes that they are loved best by their significant other).  He hates feeling overlooked, feeling like he doesn't measure up.  In his youth, he was constantly comparing himself to Fingon and feeling the lesser, not only in terms of personality, but in everyone's eyes.

"And it was lovely to see that Elmirion did search for Maeglin! <3 I had wondered, but didn’t think a Fëanorion would have nothing to say about his friend disappearing. I wonder where they’ll go now they’ve (in a way) escaped being watched?"

I am glad it didn't disappoint!  And yeah, no way would a Feanorion be content with letting his friend disappear!  You will have to wait and see where they go next :grins:

Thanks you so, so much for the fantastic review!  It uplifted me :hugs:


Name: kasura (Signed) · Date: April 15, 2019 6:52 · For: Chapter 17
So glad you've continued to write! squeal!!!

What they have done to Maeglin is despicable. Don't they realize he doesn't remember the past, same as others who've returned. He only wants to see him mom :(

Awww...I am hoping Turgon's redemption is near. By really spending time with Maeglin, and seeing him truly as a person, Turgon may be able to take care of him properly as his uncle this time, and starting to redeem himself.

Sad Turgon still hurting from Fingon ditching him for Maedhros....but it's Maedhros so who can resist that.

Author's Response:
Thanks so much for the review!  It's wonderful to hear you are still enjoying the story, despite the long breaks between postings!


I agree: Maeglin has suffered enough!  But I'm not as worried about him as I was when he was trapped in Gondolin because he's memories are going to come back and he's got the inner strength of character to come out on the other side of this all right.  The hardest is going to be remembering Angbad.  If anything breaks him, it will be that.


I do think that Maeglin's close proximity to Turgon is the first step to ripping aside the delusions Turgon is currently living in, and it's going to take Turgon facing the truth of what he's done before he can really change.  The problem is, letting go of the delusions means taking a good long look at everything he's done, and that's incredibly hard to face.  It's so much easier to keep blaming everyone else and justifying himself to himself than facing reality.  But if he doesn't want to end up utterly alone forever, then he's going to have to take those hard steps.  


"Sad Turgon still hurting from Fingon ditching him for Maedhros....but it's Maedhros so who can resist that."

Yeah, Turgon really is still stuck in his childhood so much.  And like, while it must have been really painful to feel second best to Maethros, he needs to forgive and stop holding on to the bitterness, it's doing nothing but poison him.

Thank you again for the review!  It's nice to hear that you are rooting for a Turgon redemption!  I worried no one would be interested in seeing that, so it's heartening.  Even if he's not someone I really like, I'd like to see if it's possible for his character to grow in the story.  There's a number of characters who have made horrible decisions, but they have eternity ahead of them, I'd like to hope that they are capable of change!


Name: mangacrack (Signed) · Date: March 16, 2019 8:59 · For: Chapter 17

Turgon is a quite interesting character, once I have gotten to written him. One of his major problems is that he was born in difficult times, where the House of Finwe was constantly changing and each new birth after him changed the dynamics once again. Not to mention that Fingolfin and Feanor were playing a lot cold&hot at the time, to he probably never relied on his father/uncle/grandfather for stability and rather chose his mother instead - who I deem responsible for Turgon's narrow minded world. 
Personally I believe that Turgon never wanted to leave Valinor, he just did not have the guts to stand up to his father. That, or when he wished to turn around with Finarfin, Fingolfin outright forbade it. It's one of the major differences in the Nolofinwion family - they dont have the same blind trust in each like Feanor had with his sons. 
So basically Turgon has a lot of self-reflection to do, go back to his own childhood and question everything he knows and he believes in. Though, with Fingon I can understand why Turgon has issues. Envy and jealousy, lack of attention on Fingon's part ... they never had the same relationship the Feanorians had with each other and I wonder if Turgon secretly holds Fingon to impossible standards without realizing it. For he and Fingon grew up in different circumstances, an entire different world, than the Sons of Feanor. 
... based on this is an achievement that Idril is not more screwed up in the head. Her problem is that she is not honest with herself. She is the little girl that was never allowed to make her dress dirty and started believing at some point that she does not like playing outside, while still envying people like her aunt. 
But similiar to Turgon, I don't feel sorry for her. She is an adult and had enough time to reinvent herself and sort out her issues. 



Author's Response:

Turgon is a quite interesting character, once I have gotten to written him.

I have experienced this too with characters.  You can go in not even liking a character before writing them and coming out with them being one of your baby’s lol.  This was me with Eärendil.

“So basically Turgon has a lot of self-reflection to do, go back to his own childhood and question everything he knows and he believes in. Though, with Fingon I can understand why Turgon has issues. Envy and jealousy, lack of attention on Fingon's part ... they never had the same relationship the Feanorians had with each other and I wonder if Turgon secretly holds Fingon to impossible standards without realizing it. For he and Fingon grew up in different circumstances, an entire different world, than the Sons of Feanor.”

Yes, I too think a lot of his problems stem from him childhood.  It was an unstable childhood, like you said, not only because of the political tensions, but his mother was very absent and that would be hard to deal with for a child, especially for Turgon who’s personality was the most like hers.  Without their mother around, Fingolfin’s children would have tried to get all their parental love from Fingolfin, and while he was a great dad, his relationship with each child looked different (not that he loved at one of them more than the others at that time, but each child was unique (I do think in Beleriand he couldn’t help but love Fingon more.  Fingon was the one who was there at his side for those long centuries of war.  Fingon became his greatest support, his friend, as well as his son.).  Turgon started to doubt his place in his father’s heart when Maedhros entered the picture.  He was already jealous and hurt by how much time Fingon was spending with Maedhros, and then on top of that Fingolfin enjoyed Maedhros’ company too, so it must have seemed to Turgon that he couldn’t find an ally in his father either.  Aredhel was the only one in his corner during their childhood, but then, of course, she ended up making a Fëanorion friend of her own and seeming to prefer a Feanorion over Turgon just like Fingon.

There was indeed a lot of jealousy and feelings of inadequacy in Fingon and Turgon’s relationship.  And it went both ways.  They both had the strengths the other thought they themselves lacked.  Turgon was the booksmart one and Fingon was the one who could make friends anywhere.  Turgon was reserved and struggled to make friends, and Fingon compared his own performance in their studies against Turgon’s and thought himself lacking.  Instead of their differences bringing them together, it made it hard for them to spend time together.  Turgon liked quiet act ivies, Fingon loved to be out and about keeping active.

I also think Aredhel’s relationship with Fingon was rocky because they were similarly athletic and outgoing but Aredhel couldn’t help comparing Fingon’s freedom in society with the restraints imposed on her.  She wanted to be Fingon.  Or at least she wished she’s been more with the freedom the males in her society had been born with but which was denied her.  Where Fingon’s sexual exploits were a piece of juice gossip that didn’t seriously threaten his place in society, hers tainted her and couldn’t have easily led to her being dragged before the Valar and forced into their service no matter how much her father would have fought to stop that from happening.

“Personally I believe that Turgon never wanted to leave Valinor, he just did not have the guts to stand up to his father. That, or when he wished to turn around with Finarfin, Fingolfin outright forbade it.”

Huh.  I’ve never thought about Turgon not wanting to leave Valinor before, but I guess I can see with the way he secluded himself in Gondolin and built it in Tirion’s image.  He was also the one who first started trying to reach out to the Valar and get their help.

In this story Turgon does not believe in the Valar’s benevolence tho, so he did want to leave.  But that was only part of it.  For all he tried to deny and suppress it, those old childhood jealousies and cravings for Fingolin’s attention were still there.  He wanted to go and prove himself to Fingolfin (and Fingon too, tho he would never admit that).  He wanted them to look at him with respect and admiration.  He wanted to be better than Maethros Feanorion in their eyes.  Of course, everything changed after his wife died.  Those old childhood longings soured into resentments and hatred and he nursed them; not making any effort to heal or try to work with his father and Fingon again.  He cut them out of his heart (or at least he told himself he had).

“She is the little girl that was never allowed to make her dress dirty and started believing at some point that she does not like playing outside, while still envying people like her aunt.”

Yes, this is a good description!  It is a wonder tho, like you said, that she is as not-messed-up as she is given Turgon was her main role model and only parent for the second half of her childhood and he was a mess of grief and bitterness.  In Gondolin we saw the results of his bad parenting where she is so obsession with being the perfect daughter.  It makes me thinking of how astatically perfect Gondolin had been built and yet that beauty was just the cover for the broken underneath.  Turgon was quite right when he thought that Idril had learned how to hide her true self behind high walls from him.  She finds it hard to open up to the people around her and actually build meaningful relationships because that is how Turgon taught her to be.

But, as you say, she is a grown adult and has been for millennium, and yet she still has so many of the same pitfalls that she had in Gondolin.  Seriously, I keep thinking about the First Age (actually since the Darkening) as this one long trauma for the Elves that so many of them have not grown past at all.

Thank you so much for the review!  It got me examining the dynamics between Fingolfin’s children more, and that’s something I want to explore in the story!  I am sure we shall see old wounds ripped open once more of the dead start getting reborn!



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 13, 2019 21:53 · For: Chapter 17

Sorry, Encairion, when I mentioned people knowing that Maeglin had helped the slaves in Gondolin, I meant any of the slaves; there were some who called back against the Gondolindrim, so I wondered if any of those he aided, the slaves of Gondolin, had not been reborn. 



Author's Response:

Ah, I see!  But no, I don’t think any of those Elves knew.  They were no doubt Elves who had sailed over the years, mostly from Lindon, but none of the Wood-elves from Gondolin would have wanted to sail after they saw the Noldor Gondolin survivors sailing in heavy numbers after the War of Wrath.  I think it’s quite rare for a full-blooded Wood-elf to sail at all, and even less so for one who had suffered so.  Valinor no doubt seems like the Noldor’s homeland to them.

Thank you again for the great reviews!  I am glad you enjoyed the chapter :)



Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: March 06, 2019 11:16 · For: Chapter 17
The art is absolutely stunning. I love it! I hope you are doing better and please take all the time you need to work through all of your issues. Fanfic is great, but real life should always come first.

It’s interesting that Idril refused to allow a meeting between Turgon and Aredhel. Is she just being spiteful or is she up to something? Incidentally, Aredhel was one of the Gondolindrim, is she also being punished? On that note, I’ve been trying to work out what exactly is Idril’s policy toward the Gondolindrim. I’m getting the impression that all the Gondolindrim are being punished, even those who repented. But if that is the case, how did Idril explain away her own participation in the oppression of the Wood Elves? I seem to remember she employed only Noldor in her own household in Gondolin, but she still benefited from the oppression of the Wood Elves indirectly – they are the ones doing all the hard labor. For example, it was made clear that none of the reborn Gondolindrim were farmers, therefore in Gondolin all farming was done by the Silvan. No matter how I look at it, her view of “justice” for the Gondolindrim is fundamentally flawed, even hypocritical.

If Elmirion tries to appeal to Idril on Maeglin’s behalf, he is bound to be recognised as a Finwion, and after that it wouldn’t be too difficult to work out his parentage (or at least paternity). Este is supposed to be keeping an eye on him, so maybe it won’t be as bad as I fear. To be honest, Maeglin’s meeting with Idril and Co wasn’t as bad as I was expecting. I feel terrible for what he had to go through, but I was expecting something a lot worse.

I like the callbacks to Gondolin-era Turgon, his perspective on the events we saw through Maeglin’s eyes. Turgon’s love for Elenwe and Idril is supposed to be his one redeeming quality, but instead it makes him appear extremely creepy and obsessive. I wonder what Fingolfin’s thoughts on Turgon will be like… I cannot see Fingolfin forgiving Turgon for what he did to Finarfin.

I laughed a little at Turgon and Idril’s honest belief that Earendil “saved” the world. Even in canon that statement is a bit of a stretch, but in this story to make that claim is absurd. Their conversation about not evacuating Gondolin in time and the necessity of Gondolin’s existence (or lack thereof) really hammered home the point that neither of them has moved on from the events of the First Age – Gondolin is the central pillar of their existence. I get the feeling that they had this conversation many times before, each of them rehashing the same arguments over and over again. Both of them know that the other’s opinion isn’t going to change, so neither of them can get closure. This is tragic, but frustrating at the same time. Idril is involved in planning the rebellion; she should be looking to the future, not the past. I don’t think the Noldor can move forward while she is in charge.

On another note, I like that you portray the Noldor who stayed in Valinor (namely Turgon’s “master” and his family) as imperfect people with quite a few flaws (drunkenness, crassness, narrow-mindedness, even stupidity). Canon seems to imply that the Noldor who remained in Valinor were the “wisest” of the lot, but I think there should be a full spectrum of qualities and/or personalities among those who chose to stay. So, I like your take on it. On the other hand, we are seeing the Valinor Noldor through Turgon’s eyes, so maybe his master *is* the personification of wisdom and Turgon is just biased against him ;)

Once again, thank you for this chapter and take care of yourself!

Author's Response:

The art is absolutely stunning. I love it! I hope you are doing better and please take all the time you need to work through all of your issues. Fanfic is great, but real life should always come first.”

Thank you :hugs:  And I am so pleased you like the art!  It really is fantastic :)

“It’s interesting that Idril refused to allow a meeting between Turgon and Aredhel. Is she just being spiteful or is she up to something?”

Oh, I don’t think Idril sees herself as a spiteful person (whether she really is though is for us to decided), but if it is spite, it’s not consciously done.  No, I imagine she thinks she’s being a good niece to Aredhel.  At this point, Idril really hasn’t had much interaction with a reborn elf who has no memories.  So she sees Aredhel as a child, and Turgon as a bad influence on her impressionable mind.

“Incidentally, Aredhel was one of the Gondolindrim, is she also being punished?”

Nope.  Idril, for all she likes to think herself impartial, can’t be (as no one really is).  She knows, on a personal level, how much Aredhel chafed at Gondolin and remembers the times Aredhel spoke out against the Wood-elves’ treatment (Aredhel did –at first—but she grew as complacent and silently accepting as all the rest before the end).

“On that note, I’ve been trying to work out what exactly is Idril’s policy toward the Gondolindrim. I’m getting the impression that all the Gondolindrim are being punished, even those who repented. But if that is the case, how did Idril explain away her own participation in the oppression of the Wood Elves?”

Idril is indeed handing out sentences to all the Reborn Gondolin (except the children).  The sentences are all the same –at the beginning.  But she does leave the room to appeal and for the punishment to be ended after ‘repentance’ has been achieved.  That is the whole point of why she’s doing this –she wants all the Reborn Gondolindrim to repent and change their ways.  That’s her goal.  And in some cases it HAS worked –which keeps her dead set on continuing.  Tho those cases might have already had shame growing in their hearts like in Ecthelion’s case but hadn’t spoken out yet.

As for Idril’s own participation, you are completely right that she benefited from the Wood-elves’ oppression, whether she wants to acknowledge that to herself or not.  But to her, her ‘road to repentance’ is something she’s already started on and already sacrificed a lot for (ie marrying Tuor to ‘save the world’).  As has the other Gondolindhrim who survived the sack –at least this is HER impression.  She thinks these other Elves, like herself, learned better long ago and suffered through the War of Wrath and other tragedies so their sins have been paid for (but somehow, she doesn’t think the Feanorions suffering counts for anything….or maybe she just doesn’t think about it and leapt at Eäwen’s offer of an alliance for the Feanorions without really seeing the Feanorions as people.  While we, the readers, have had a front row seat to the tragedy of the Feanorions slow fall, Idril was fed Turgon’s perspective, locked behind mountain walls while the Fenaorions were performing their most noble deeds in all of Beleriand’s protection, and then heard the Doriath refuses’ version of what happened in the second Kinsalying which no doubt painted the FEanorions’ as monsters.  So maybe she can learn to see the Feanorions as people once she meets them.  She was able to forgive Maeglin after all.  I am starting to have more hope for her!)

If Elmirion tries to appeal to Idril on Maeglin’s behalf, he is bound to be recognised as a Finwion, and after that it wouldn’t be too difficult to work out his parentage (or at least paternity).”

Ha!  You are reading my mind :winks:

“To be honest, Maeglin’s meeting with Idril and Co wasn’t as bad as I was expecting. I feel terrible for what he had to go through, but I was expecting something a lot worse.”

Yes, I know what you mean.  I actually had a version where it would have been worse mapped out, but it didn’t feel true to how I see Idril’s character now.  She wouldn’t let herself engage in revenge; it would fly counter to her personal narrative of herself and her long struggle towards trying to pay penance for her own crime of killing all those Wood-elves (by accident).  She has a ridged view of what she can and can’t allow herself to indulge in, and satisfying a thirst for revenge is not on that list.

“ I cannot see Fingolfin forgiving Turgon for what he did to Finarfin.”

Yep, that is going to be a hard one.  Tho what Turgon allowed to happened to the Wood-elves he was in a position of authority over was even more unforgivable.  I wonder tho if Finarfin is actually going to TELL anyone about what Turgon did to him?  See, I have a solution in mind for his body being restored in full before he enrages in any kind of sexual relationship again, so no one’s going to discover the truth unless he tells them, and I can see Finarfin not telling if by the time it becomes relevant Turgon has already taken large steps towards trying to change and be a better person.  Turgon is someone Finarfin really doesn’t like, but Finarfin is also a very forgiving person when the crime is being committed against himself (this no doubt tied into his low self-esteem).  This might be one of those things that stays a secret between the two of them and never comes to light.  I have a feeling there are going to a number of things the family as a whole never finds out about each other.  While finally starting to communicate is the goal.  Secrets are just something that families have, for better or worse, and this family is just too good at not communicating for that all to go away!

“Their conversation about not evacuating Gondolin in time and the necessity of Gondolin’s existence (or lack thereof) really hammered home the point that neither of them has moved on from the events of the First Age – Gondolin is the central pillar of their existence. I get the feeling that they had this conversation many times before, each of them rehashing the same arguments over and over again. Both of them know that the other’s opinion isn’t going to change, so neither of them can get closure. This is tragic, but frustrating at the same time. Idril is involved in planning the rebellion; she should be looking to the future, not the past. I don’t think the Noldor can move forward while she is in charge.”

I like how you caught this about them!  Yes, they are very much still caught in the past, tho Idril is trying to move on a lot more than Turgon is.  Maybe she’d be further along if she had a better support group and was able to open more.  But Turgon managed to get the few friends she had FINALLY started to make dragged off as rebels by the Valar. 

I do feel like this problem of being stuck in the past is something so many Elves have tho.  And I think it’s tied directly to their living memories.  For humans, time can heal wounds, or at least dull the pain of them.  Our memories fade.  But for Elves, everything is so fresh and sharp.  They can live inside those moments as if they happened yesterday even after a thousand years.  That makes it incredibly hard to let go and move forward.  So we have the Teleri still stuck on the Kinslaying (and it’s even more apparent for them since they only have this one great tragedy to focus on where the Noldor had tragedy after tragedy on top of this horror), and the Gondolndrim who haven’t seemed to change at all, and the Wood-elves in Endor still so hurt and angry over what the Noldor did to them in the First Age, and the Wood-elves nursing grudges against the Dwarves, and people like Maglor who spent so long trapped in memory.  But we can also see Elves grow and change like the Elves under Gil-galad during the 2nd Age, and the followers of Feanor finding some healing with Celebrimbor at last, and Elves in Tirion evolving, their culture shifting with the Ages.  So yeah, I think it all comes down to the individual Elf, for some of these Elves the wounds are just so deep they are dealing with all kinds of PTSD and survivor’s guilt ect, for other Elves they are the ones holding themselves back from growing and moving on, Elves like Turgon who have to face the reality of who they are and what they have done before they can move forward.

“On another note, I like that you portray the Noldor who stayed in Valinor (namely Turgon’s “master” and his family) as imperfect people with quite a few flaws (drunkenness, crassness, narrow-mindedness, even stupidity). Canon seems to imply that the Noldor who remained in Valinor were the “wisest” of the lot, but I think there should be a full spectrum of qualities and/or personalities among those who chose to stay. So, I like your take on it. On the other hand, we are seeing the Valinor Noldor through Turgon’s eyes, so maybe his master *is* the personification of wisdom and Turgon is just biased against him ;)”

Yeah, I don’t like that interpretation of the Noldor who stayed as the wisest either.  To me, they seemed the most complacent and the most trusting in the Valar to fix everything for them.

You are quite right that we are seeing from Turgon’s eyes so we can’t really trust what he describes.  He’s got a lot of condensation in him when considering these common laborers.  But these Elves do indeed have a lot of flaws –it takes a certain kind of person who wants to volunteer to oversee another person’s punishment.  But Turgon sees these Elves as caricatures of themselves.  They don’t even get real names, almost like he didn’t even bother to learn them.  Which makes me question if his ‘masters’ had been this bad in the beginning or do they treat him so much worse now because he’d snubbed them and now they resent him?  This family defiantly has isn’t own story of how they ended up with a drunkard for a son and another so hell bent on pleasing his father, but Turgon will never know that story because of his pride, resentment, and superior attitude.  (Seriously, Turgon has a LOT he needs to work on lol)  

Thank you so so much for this great review and your kind words and encouragement!!!!  I couldn’t believe how quick the response was, even after so long away, and it made for such a warm welcome back ::hugs::



Name: mangacrack (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2019 22:45 · For: Chapter 1

ALL HAIL THE GLORIOUS RETURN! I am so happy you are back and you had me quivering through the entire chapter. the reunion between Maeglin, Idril and Turgon is an intense one and I liked every bit of it.

It solidfides my intention the properly reread the entire series, because I had forgotten the necklace. On one hand I want to grind Turgon's face into the mut, on the other ... I pity him a little. But I won't because he is still an adult. He's not like Maeglin or Idril who have still a younger mind - despite the differences in years and experience. It's Turgon's entire lack of self-reflection and willingness to show remorse that rises some deep anger in chest.

One should expected that such a reunion would have a deeper effect on Turgon. Or was his denial in his 1st life even worse? How deep did his delusion run back then when this is him being almost sane and thoughtful?

The connection between Turgon and Fingon as the deepest root of his issues is just beautiful. Exactly my opinion, but the way you describe it is outstanding. Turgon's emotions are subtle but there and slightly disturbing the way they flicker as he compares Maeglin to other people in his life.

Idril ... I want to hate her, but you manage her as person who tries and makes mistakes. I cannot fault her for not being a better person, when it's just not within her nature to have a charismatic character. 'Cause she rules with an iron fist, she manipulates peoples believes, but has no one who believes in her. She is not someone people would rally behind in a rebellion. She's a figure that slides into the spot Indis had with Feanor - not everything is exactly her fault, but the way she handles things triggers less than ideal responses.

 

Damned, this chapter is just *inspiring* but it's not the ideal time to open a word document.

Thanks again for pulling through and returning with a chapter! I know it takes a lot of effort sometimes.



Author's Response:

ALL HAIL THE GLORIOUS RETURN! I am so happy you are back and you had me quivering through the entire chapter. the reunion between Maeglin, Idril and Turgon is an intense one and I liked every bit of it.”

Thank you!!!  It feels good to be back and writing again (at least writing a little bit.  Hopefully more to come!).  I am glad to hear how much you enjoyed the chapter!  I was a bit worried it wouldn’t catch many people interest since it focuses so much on Turgon, and Idril too.

“It solidfides my intention the properly reread the entire series, because I had forgotten the necklace.”

I want to re-read it too because I’ve probably forgotten as much as you lol  the pit falls of a mega-length fic!

“It's Turgon's entire lack of self-reflection and willingness to show remorse that rises some deep anger in chest.”

Oh yes, I feel you.  Turgon is deep in his delusions, completely buying into his own narrative where he was the wronged one who was only trying to do good.  Of course, most people need to believe that they are one of the good guying.  In fact, if asked, most of the unrepentant ex-slavers of Gondolin would tell a long list of how they were completely justified in what they did.  The mind can perform all kinds of gymnastics to keep tricking itself into believe the person is really a good person.  That’s where Turgon is at, and it is going to be the hardest thing he’s ever done to rip away that delusion and face the truth of himself.  Right now, he’s got a long way to go.  And we will see if he has the fortitude for the soul scourging work of redemption.

“How deep did his delusion run back then when this is him being almost sane and thoughtful?”

Really deep.  He thinks he’s been playing the role of the misunderstood and wronged son/brother who had noble intentions that didn’t go off without a hitch, but he’d only been trying to save the world, so all should be forgiven.

“The connection between Turgon and Fingon as the deepest root of his issues is just beautiful. Exactly my opinion, but the way you describe it is outstanding. Turgon's emotions are subtle but there and slightly disturbing the way they flicker as he compares Maeglin to other people in his life.”

Oh, I am so thrilled you liked it!  The deeper I dig into Turgon, the more I find a kid who felt abandoned by his family, especially Fingon, and yet, deep down, is still desperate for them (especially Fingon and Fingolfin) to notice him, respect him, even come back to him asking for forgiveness of him for ever overlooking him in the first place.  And yet, while I do feel for the kid he was who had to deal with the pain of feeling this way, he went about handling his feelings all wrong (of course, that is often the way with feelings).  He became bitter and resentful and totally non-communitive about feeling this way until the bitterness had festered into hate and he slammed all the doors against Fingon and Fingolfin no matter how Fingolfin tried to reach him.

And then Gondolin happened, and it’s really hard to muster up pity for Turgon after that.  He had choices.  He had power.  And not only did he do nothing to stop the atrocities taking place, he allowed them to get worse and worse because that was the easier thing to do then standing up to the worst natures of his lords.

“Idril ... I want to hate her, but you manage her as person who tries and makes mistakes.”

Oh, I am glad to hear I was able to achieve this with the writing!  I am trying to keep her (well, all the characters) as complicated as possible.  Originally I did have it plotted out that her response to Maeglin would be more wrathful, with her completely stuck in the past, but that rang wrong with her character, and felt like stripping away all her complexities.  So I am glad I didn’t go that route!

You are so right that she is lacking in charisma and it is really hurting her ability to be an effective leader.  While it shouldn’t have to be true that a ruler needs charisma, to usually is.  Charisma gets people to follow you, gets them in your corner buying into your vision.  Idril has a vision, but no one else who believes in it with her.  She is their best of bad opinions rather than the leader they really want.  They tolerate her, but don’t go out of their way to see her vision take root.  (tho, really, that’s probably for the best seeing how black and white she sees the world.  Who knows what kind of ridged lives the people of Tirion would be leading if she had charisma!)

I do think her continued failures and the experience of queenship have the potential to make her a better, less black-and-white lensed person.  She just have to take the right lessons for this and not all the wrong ones, so we will see!

“Damned, this chapter is just *inspiring* but it's not the ideal time to open a word document.”

Thank you!!!! I love hearing that the chapter was inspiring.  Hopefully the ideal time did not come after the inspiration had fled.  Goodness knows we’ve all been there, and it is so annoying when that happens.

“Thanks again for pulling through and returning with a chapter! I know it takes a lot of effort sometimes.”

Thank you for the welcome back :hugs: 



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2019 22:42 · For: Chapter 17

No-one, I assume, but Turgon, knows how he entrapped Maeglin in a spell. But surely, someone, someone must be around who knows how hard Maeglin fought for the oppressed in Gondolin. 

 

Maybe Fingon wouldn’t have broken, but even Maedhros broke in many ways, although he came back from it, but Maeglin was broken before he ever was captured by Morgoth. 



Author's Response:

No-one, I assume, but Turgon, knows how he entrapped Maeglin in a spell. But surely, someone, someone must be around who knows how hard Maeglin fought for the oppressed in Gondolin.”

There are people around (even if they tried their best not to see that what Maeglin was doing in Gondolin was the Right Thing), but Maeglin is the exception to the rule for all of them (both those that are ashamed of what they did in Gondolin and those that are stubbornly telling themselves they did no wrong).  Maeglin betrayed Gondolin to Morgoth, he’s a traitor of the worst kind.  No one cares anymore who he was or what he fought for in the rest of his life before that, all that matters is Gondolin’s fall and the blame that they throw at Maeglin’s feet.

“Maybe Fingon wouldn’t have broken, but even Maedhros broke in many ways, although he came back from it, but Maeglin was broken before he ever was captured by Morgoth.”

Yes.  Turgon doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  HE was never a captive of Morgoth.  He has no idea.  Of course, he’s also buying into the narrative that Maeglin was only threatened with torture and never actually tortured.  Morgoth took care to conceal the physical evidence of Maeglin’s torture before sending Maeglin back.  Maeglin didn’t look like the other thralls who had suffered, he looked like one of the ones who’d cowered and folded at the very sight of Morgoth.

But I think Turgon would still think Maeglin should have died rather than betray the secret of Gondolin even under torture.  Of course, Morgoth wasn’t giving the option of death.  He was hardly going to let Maeglin slip through his figures like that.

As much as Turgon doesn’t know what he’s talking about since he’s never been in Maeglin’s place, I also think this says something about the image Turgon has of Fingon in his mind.  As much as his inner thoughts are filled with scorn for Fingon, he still believes that Fingon was this larger than life figure, almost like the way a kid looks up to a superhero.  That’s a but heartbreaking, but also telling that Turgon didn’t really know Fingon at all.  He saw only the surface and made a caricature of Fingon in his head, one where the flaws as well as the strengths were overblown.



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 05, 2019 14:10 · For: Chapter 17

It would be something at least if ‘good’ came out of this (Although I assume Aredhel has not even remembered or been told she had a son, which is unconsionable) if Turgon were to learn something from Maeglin. Admitted he did him wrong from the very beginning, by using a bespeclled necklace on him, by trying to change him, and that Gondolin itself made him what he was. The Gondolin that Turgon loved som muhc and was so proud of. Until he admits he was wrong (because Idril is right that the blame lies untlimately on Morgoth, and there were other ways this could have gone — but would it have made any difference in the end? 



Author's Response:

You are quite right, Turgon has to face the fact that he did wrong before he’s ever going to start growing.  Right now, he’s still in deep denial, and just having to look at Maeglin is pulling up a lot of uncomfortable things he’s tried his best to ignore.  But Turgon is very good at lying to himself, so it is going to take more to push him into facing the music.  We will see if he has the strength to let go of the delusions in the end, or if he can’t face the truth of what he is and what he’s done.

It’s all going to come down to him, and whether or not he has the strength to change.



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: March 04, 2019 15:59 · For: Chapter 17

I am going to scream, cry and beat my head against the wall. Maeglin never ever gets a break does he, except very briefly. And NOTHING changes, the Gondolindrim are still the same bastards as before, hissing ‘Moriquendi’ at him although I note he did have a couple of supporters, including Elenwë, which doesn’t surprise me.  And Maeglin does not even remember, does not understand. 

However, I sense a kind of shift, here, in Turgon, if only because Maeglin reminds him of Aredhel, (and even Fingon) and what he did to/for Maeglin makes sense in that context, trying to save him from ‘himself’. But Maeglin was not the man to look away at injustices and couldn’t be controlled in that way. 

 

Idril’s justice is ice cold but at least it saved Maeglin being lynched, so that’s something. But the skin of hatred and bigotry is still so deep and she’s not the person to be able to do anything about that. 



Author's Response:

I am too cruel to Maeglin, I know!  The poor guy never catches a break!  But, even after teh way he's been treated now, I think he is in a much better place then in Gondolin.  His memories will start returning, and he is not trapped in the same way he was in Gondolin.  Also, as you pointed out, he has allies.  Allies that are not cut off from him the way Fingon and Maethros and all the rest of his family were in Gondolin.  You can bet Elmirion isn't going to take this lying down!

 

You are right that Maeglin's coming is the first spark to a change in Turgon.  Turgon still has an incredibly long climb to go, and I am not sure he's capable of a true redemption arch.  The first step he'd have to take is coming to terms with the fact that what he did was incredibly wrong.  He's so caught up in his own delusion that he's some kind of hero who made great sacrifices for the salvation of the world, that stripping that delusion away and facing his true self is going to be the hardest thing he's ever done, and I am not sure he has it in him to do it.  But we will see.  

 

"Idril’s justice is ice cold but at least it saved Maeglin being lynched, so that’s something. But the skin of hatred and bigotry is still so deep and she’s not the person to be able to do anything about that."

 

Yes, at least she didn't toss him to the mob baying for his blood.  But she still has a certain self-righteousness about her in regards to him.  Or maybe it's just ignorance.  She never knew him.  She only knew her own perception of him, which was warped by her belief as him being a 'harbinger of doom.'  She lived in a bubble in Gondolin, trying to separate herself from the horror of that place and somehow be above it and yet was so very much a part of it, buying into Turgon's rhetoric of the Greater Good.

You are right that she isn't the person to heal these wounds.  She doesn't have the mercy for those that are truly repentant, and her attempts to change the Gondolindhrim who are not at all repentant isn't working, they are just digging their heels in.

 

Thank you so much for these reviews!!!! 



Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: November 01, 2018 21:38 · For: Chapter 16

I have finally caught up, Encairion! This is epic, huge, magnificent- this rebellion against the Valar that is brewing is wonderful, I LOVE Caranthir and Elured, Elurin - and their strange but rather tender relationship. I am anxious for Maeglin and ther eaction of Tirion when they realise who HE is, Turgon especially, although he seems to be completely penitant. Fabulous sense of a storm building- with all these great heroes converging upon the shores of Aman! Can't wait for Caranthir and Maglor to meet again. Waiting for Fingon, glorious lovely Fingon and his beautfiul Maedhros.



Author's Response:
Yay, I am so happy you like the story this much!   :happy dance: It felt so wonderful to get all these lovely reviews from you, Ziggy!  Thank you so much :hugs:


Ah, Caranthir and the twins, I just want to smuggle them away somewhere that involves lots of happiness, but Valinor is the only place Caranthir could ever head for there will never be true happiness for him without his family.  I want to see Elured and Elurin as adopted Feanorions just like their nephews.  There's something in that Feanorion blood lol
 
Maeglin is definitely in for trouble once his identity is revealed.  There are far too many people walking around that would think justice meant a knife through the back in a dark alley.  
I am also really looking forward to Maglor and Caranthir meeting again!!!  And ah Fingon and Maedhros, we need them back!  I've no doubt their love with have endured, but how will Maedhros' death/the years after Fingon's death have changed him?  So much to explore!
Thank you again for the wonderful reviews :)


Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: November 01, 2018 15:08 · For: Chapter 16
I tend to think of the Valar as a uniform mass, but you’ve really put some thought into their personalities. Varda’s use of the Children’s souls to extend her own existence isn’t really a surprise at this point. This sort of thing is expected after the Valar allowed Melkor to carry out his terrible experiments on the Elves. Tulkas is clearly a bit slow, and I cannot believe that after several millennia he still hasn’t a clue that he is being manipulated. On the other hand, I’m intrigued by Aule’s refusal to consume not only Elmirion’s soul, but also the other souls offered to him; maybe there is some hope of redemption for him. I don’t think he has ever actually harmed a Child, even if his inaction allowed other Valar to do so. It doesn’t look as if Aule has the willpower to stand with the Elves against his brethren, but if other opportunities to covertly help Feanor present themselves, he will probably act on them.

Celebrian is a true hero, of course. She showed such strength and determination even when she was dying. Turgon and Galadriel have a thing or two to learn from her!

It doesn’t seem that Varda is really in control of Manwe, and, once he is invigorated with youth, hopefully he will do something very highhanded and very stupid, finally displaying the Valar’s true natures to the non-rebellious Elves. Even if the Teleri, the Sindar, and the Silvan are unlikely to join the fight against the Valar, I hope they at least don’t hinder the Noldor.

It is good news that Feanor reacted so strongly to the information that some of the Noldor mistreated the Silvan in Middle-Earth. On the other hand, Varda’s lies about his sons have me worried. No doubt Feanor will mostly blame himself, but a small part of him might see it as a betrayal on his sons’ part. I don’t think reassuring him that he was always loved would be an easy thing to do, especially considering his history – people do tend to let him down. I can see these doubts taking root and dogging him for millennia to come. I think I read something about Maglor contacting his father through the Silmaril in one of the other reviews, and I really hope you include that, because otherwise by the time he is finally reborn Feanor will be a worse wreck than even Curufin.

“I really like the idea of him being instrumental in the Reborn regaining their memories and using a power he had once used for ill now for good.”

Yes, I’m really glad that Maeglin is rethinking his use of the Mind-arts. However, will the other Elves want his help once his identity becomes known? To be fair, I’m not really sure why he is even considered a villain – how did the Gondolindrim jump to the conclusion that he gave up Gondolin’s location willingly? He wasn’t well-liked in Gondolin, but “not well-liked” doesn’t equal “evil”. It’s odd that Idril didn’t see Maeglin for what he was – a person fighting to help the oppressed.

“It's interesting you called Elmirion and Maeglin's relationship a romance, it got me thinking about how little I write sex that isn't romantic in natural -something for me to consider expanding on”

Yeah, I struggled to come up with a name for Elmirion and Maeglin’s relationship. They seem to be closer than friends, so I ended up using the term romance, though that didn’t really fit either. Not least because I seem to remember you are saving Maeglin for Celegorm. As far as your other point goes, I think I prefer that you generally write romantic sex. I feel like complicated interpersonal emotions should be at the forefront, and I see simple desire as not being very complicated. I just don’t think a random hook up between two characters would have the same punch for me, it would be too forgettable.

“I don't feel lost without it, as I have a clear idea of the basic plot points, but that doesn't mean I don't worry that what I've cook-up will pass inspection”

Well, don’t worry about earning my approval; I’m in for the long haul, as far as this story is concerned. Unless you permanently kill off Feanor or have Thingol enslave him or something, then I might have to stop reading for the sake of my own sanity :)

Thank you so much for this incredible story! I’m looking forward to the next chapters.

Author's Response:
""I tend to think of the Valar as a uniform mass, but you’ve really put some thought into their personalities."

I used to think the same, and write them that way.  It wasn't until we made it to this final enstalment of the story that I began thinking about them more as individual personalities with their own ambitions and motivatios.  Before they really did seem to be more of a collective -or at least their goal seemed to be aligned: mantianing power/control.  When I got to thinking about it tho, it made sense that in the past the story presented them in that way because we were seeing the Valar from the Elves' POV, and to them, the Valar DO seem like a hive mind -or at least that they all will obey Manwe when it comes down to it even if they had voiced doubts.

"Varda’s use of the Children’s souls to extend her own existence isn’t really a surprise at this point."

Yeah, it fits all too well with the Valar's histories.  Maybe they should do something about being so predictable lol

"Tulkas is clearly a bit slow, and I cannot believe that after several millennia he still hasn’t a clue that he is being manipulated."

This got me thinking why this might be (if it doesn't just all come down to being slow on the uptake)....and I think it's because of the fading.  Tulkas has only recently consumed an Elven soul at Varda's direction, before that he had had one foot in death's door, and I think, just as Varda says Manwe isn't what he once was, Tulkas wasn't either.  Not only had his physically strength/power been affected, but his cognative ablities as well.  Maybe this explains why the Elves have been able to get away with so much stuff too?  I mean, I love my Elves, but the Valar are vastly more powerful than a Once-lived Elf and with their ablities to spy and even control the Elves in Middle-earth to such an extent that Elrohir didn't know about his family's rebeliion plans until the Valar's powers began to wane, then the Valar should have things more in hand then they do at this point.  but they don't because they are far from the Powers they once were who shaped the world.

Alue: you are right that Feanor might be able to get Alue to work with the Elves against the other Valar.  I think Feanor is the only one tho, as he's the one Alue is obsessed with.  As for if Alue can be redeemed...hmm...maybe?  I think his redemtion would look differnent from say, an Elf's, because in the end he is not one of the Children and I wonder how capable he is of feeling things like remorse or really understanding that what the Valar are doing is wrong.  He can be motivated to help them if Feanor gives him something he wants (or just convinces him he will), but I think it more likely that he will help them out of self-interest then out of remorse.

Manwe: to be honest, I am not yet sure what Manwe is going to do now.  It is entertly likely he will make a mess of things, but he might do the opposite as well and actually GAIN the Valar more followers.  He can be quite supaficially charming, now he's back to his old self.  His character would make a good polotician -in the short term-- but time would show how hollow his shine really is.  But there are a lot of Elves running around Valinor who still worship the Valar, and a charasmatic Manwe might bind them even tighter.

Feanor: yeah, Varda's lies are not going to help his mental state at ALL.  They are so dangerous because they have plucked chords that already existed in him.  He already blamed himself, and he has a history of doubting his own self-worth and wondering when the people who love him now will leave him.  I hope Maglor does figure out a way to contact him!  His father needs him!

Maeglin:  I think you are right on that only a select number of Elves will want his help.  But I do foresee him able to help Aegnor and Angrod out tho.  I think it will depend on the views of the reborn Elves' families about him.
"To be fair, I’m not really sure why he is even considered a villain – how did the Gondolindrim jump to the conclusion that he gave up Gondolin’s location willingly?"
I have wondered this too -about cannon Maeglin.  It's been a while since I read the Fall of Gondolin, but, unless I am misremembering, Tuor somehow came to the conclution that Maeglin was a traitor BEFORE Maeglin's confruntation with Idril on the walls, and sent his House to attack Maeglin's.  I tend to think he was going off of suspicions rather than any real evidance, and since I read cannon as heavily influenced by racist views against non-Noldor, I read everything that happened in Gondolin with a bucket of salt.  I mean, how did the Gondolin know that Maeglin wasn't tortured and gave up Gondolin's location for a deal with Morgoth?  How do they know Idril was the promised price?  It all seems very suspicious to me and like the kind of thing the survivors told themselves after to further villafy Maeglin.  Why was it so important to them that Maeglin wasn't tortured?  Porbalbly because they wanted him to be the ultimate villian in the stories that they were free to hate without a shred of pity for what he'd endured. 
As for how the Gondolindhrim in this story decided it was Maeglin who betrayed them, well, I think that while everyone was eager to pretend that Maeglin's disparerance leading up to Gondolin's Fall wasn't anything worth investigating at the time, in hindsight they questioned it.  And, coupled with Tuor and Idril's story of what happened on the wall with Earneidel (who Maeglin DID threatened to kill, tho WE know he wasn't in his right mind at the time, to an out-of-the-know outsider his actions look pretty evil), the Gondolindhrim were more then comfortable pointing the finger at Maeglin.

"Yeah, I struggled to come up with a name for Elmirion and Maeglin’s relationship. They seem to be closer than friends, so I ended up using the term romance, though that didn’t really fit either."

I am glad to hear I didn't completely miss-interpret how their relationship came off!  And yes, I did have thoughts of Maeglin/Celegorm later, but we will see how the story flows, someone else might pop up :)

"As far as your other point goes, I think I prefer that you generally write romantic sex. I feel like complicated interpersonal emotions should be at the forefront, and I see simple desire as not being very complicated. I just don’t think a random hook up between two characters would have the same punch for me, it would be too forgettable."

Oh, yes, you are quite right.  I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to start writing a bunch of hook-ups.  I feel like sex-scenes, just like any other scene, needs to serve a purpose in the story.  If the sex scene isn't revealing something new about the character or driving the plot forward, then it should not be included.  And usually causal sex-scenes don't add anything to the story.  What I meant was that I tend to explore exclusivly 'end game' pairings.  But sex can be about more than romance, it can serve a differnt kind of intimacy, or it can be about hate or vengnace, and I think I'd like to explore that more.  Tho maybe I am just not rememebering all the varied sex scenes I've written in the past.....it's terrible but I can't always remember what happened in my own story lol  Often, when writing a character we haven't seen for a while, I have to go back and re-read what I've written about them in the past.

"Unless you permanently kill off Feanor or have Thingol enslave him or something, then I might have to stop reading for the sake of my own sanity :)"

I swear to you a sacred vow this will NEVER happen lol  Feanor would stab Thingol's eyes out first and, as much as I love my angst, this story without Feanor in it wouldn't be worth reading lol  

Thank you so, so much for this great review!  You always make me so happy when I see you've commented!!!



Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: November 01, 2018 8:28 · For: Chapter 8

Brilliant ideas, Encairion- so compelling and intriguing. I did cheer Idril and Elenwë but they are becoming as tyrannical as Turgon. Poor old Finarfin. And glorious Finrod!



Author's Response:
Idril really is her father's daughter, even if she wishes she wasn't now.  Their natures are similar, both are too narrow-minded, too black and white in their thinking.  At lest Idril is TRYING to be better than she was, but ruling is a heavy burden and power doesn't usually bring out the best of people.  She just has such a narrow view of the world, one that doesn't lend itself to shades of grey -or forgiveness.  She thinks she is pursuing justice, but what is justice without clemency?  Without compassion or empathy?  That said, I am not without hope for her character either.  She might just be able to grow and change, but maybe I am just being too hopeful as far as Turgon and Idril are concerned.

I am so glad you liked Finrod :)


Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: October 31, 2018 21:54 · For: Chapter 3

This is a marvellous chapter- moving between a luscious sexuality to the fine politics and machinations of Turgon. I am afraid that Anaire is right htough- much as I like Finarfin, he is a weak leader- too ashamed, to hesitant and apolgetic. He needs to kick Turgid's ass!

 

Wonderful snippet with Ecthelion about to confess (presumably their cowardice).



Author's Response:
I agree with you about Finarfin.  I like him too, but he's not king material.  But then, not everyone is born to be a king.  Finarfin makes a great concealer or conciliator, king tho, not so much.  On the other hand, he was the leader the Noldor needed before this.  They needed a leader without too much pride who could slip under the Valar's radars.  Finarfin accomplished something few others could have, even the great kings of his family -he convinced the Valar to start releasing the Dead.


"Wonderful snippet with Ecthelion about to confess (presumably their cowardice)."

I am glad he got a chance at redemption.  I feel like Gondolin was the worst thing to happen to him -to many of the Gondolindhrim.  They might have been quite different people if they hadn't lived in a society that enabled all their worst traits and allowed them to indulge the worst of humanity.  Not that society is all to blame for their choices, especially since the lords of Gondoldin were the ones to BUILD that society, but still, it certianly didn't help them become better people in any sense. (Wow, I'm shocking myself here with having some sympathy for the Gondolndhrim lol)



Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: October 31, 2018 21:27 · For: Chapter 2

Wonder we we all hate Turgon so much?? I absolutely share your views completely.But now you are starting to reveal Tirion and Valinor- I love the idea of the city being partially demolished, the reality of not having enough accommodation etc. And the delicate relationship  between  Finarfin and Elenwe, and the jelousy of Turgon. Great stuff!! I can't wait for Elrohir to get there!!



Author's Response:
"Wonder we we all hate Turgon so much??"

Hmm, that is the question...I think it's Gondolin that gives me the creeps the most.  Tho Maeglin/Eol's treatment there is also something I have a bone to pick with that place and Turgon as it's king since I read the way they are both written as throwing racist shade on them/non-Noldor in general.  But then, I also don't like much of what we know of Turgon either, from the way he didn't show up for the Battle of Sudden Flames, to how he retreated after Fingon died back to Gondolin leaving Fingon's people and the Humans living in those lands to be slaughtered or fall under tyranny, to how he didn't even come out to fight when Gondolin fell but died in his tower.  It just doesn't leave me with a favorable impression of him.  But for all that, and for all I've written here in the opening chapters of this story, I'm not ruling out the possibility of positive character growth for him in the future.  He may have needed to hit rock bottom before he can really look at who he is and what he's done (tho maybe he will refuse to change too, his character is terribly stubborn and prideful once he's dug his heels in, we shall see what happens!).

I am glad to hear how much you like the descriptions of Tirion in the Third Age :)

"I can't wait for Elrohir to get there!!"

He would really shake things up!  He's like the complete opposite of so many of these Elves, full of fire (and darkness).


Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: October 31, 2018 21:02 · For: Chapter 1

brilliant idea! compelling and intriguing ideas, wonderful writing.



Name: ziggy (Signed) · Date: October 31, 2018 19:28 · For: Chapter 1

Which now makes sense since I read the last chapter of The Lost children - and realised what is happening here. I had starte dreading it but was very confused. Now I get it- and know what is happening.

 

Beautiful writing my dear Encairion. Such gorgoeus imagery.



Author's Response:

I am sorry to hear it was confusing at first!  But it's wonderful to hear you are enjoying it now :D  Thanks for the kind words :)



Name: kasura (Signed) · Date: October 28, 2018 22:25 · For: Chapter 16
Maeglin and Elmirion squeaaaalllll!!! The story of how these 2 reborn and relearn their skills and identities just amazing - and showing the extent of Valar's scheme to control the Noldor reborn. My question is do the Sindar who got reeled by Namo's call to stay in Mandos, do they go through the same treatment or just the Noldor? what about the mixed Noldor/Sindar elves? If the Sindar are able to reborn without going through this reconditioning, omg that shows the Valar are seriously scared of the Noldor...

It's just me or I think Varda's plan of releasing Maeglin gonna backfire on her fake pristine face XD. All these work just to be with Melkor? sheesh...and how her pride going to bust when she found out Melkor wants Feanor instead of her?

The fall of the Valar - you have it tying nicely with the Flame Imperishable in the elves that the Valar jealously want - not surprising they turn into disgusting leeches to feed on Elven souls to stay in power. The Valar are never meant to be living with the elves and be their rulers. There's too much of power imbalance for them not to abuse that power in the name of the good.

I assume Celebrian found out about Valar's dirty little secret through Elmirion's mirror?

Wow I feel so many plots and side plots cross and in parallel - this is so complex in a magnificent way. I can't wait for Caranthir to show up and meet Elmirion!

urghhh My gut feel is Varda wants to restore Turgon back to Noldor Kingship, by releasing Maeglin :(

Author's Response:
"Maeglin and Elmirion squeaaaalllll!!!"

I feel exactly the same :grins:

"My question is do the Sindar who got reeled by Namo's call to stay in Mandos, do they go through the same treatment or just the Noldor? what about the mixed Noldor/Sindar elves? If the Sindar are able to reborn without going through this reconditioning, omg that shows the Valar are seriously scared of the Noldor..."

Hmm, good questions.  I think the Doom would fall on the shoulders of any descendant of an Exile, even one of mixed blood, so they would receive the same treatment.  I can't remember if I've written anywhere of Sindar, Silvan, ect who was dragged (or choose) Mandos....I don't think so, but correct me if I am mistaken.  So I am going to go with the thought that the Valar just didn't care enough about these Elves to try and haul them to Mandos.  We see this attitude in the way they never bothered to finish cleaning up Morgoth's mess time and again, and how they didn't care to intervene when Morgoth almost took over Beleriand even though the Sindar, Silvan, ect had never 'rebelled.'  I think this shows a general lack of care for what became of the Elves who never choose the Trees in the first place.  So, I am going to assume that all these Elves are being reborn in new Menegoth, or are wandering around houseless.

"It's just me or I think Varda's plan of releasing Maeglin gonna backfire on her fake pristine face XD."

It defiantly could!  Even though Varda understands the way Elves/the Children think better how that she absorbed Irime's soul, she still doesn't perceive all the layers.  Does she REALLY know how Idril/ the other Noldor will react?  Or is she just making assumptions?  

"and how her pride going to bust when she found out Melkor wants Feanor instead of her?"

Yes, the irony is that even is she accomplished everything she set out to and released a Melkor who had consumed Feanor's soul, he would still reject her.

"The fall of the Valar - you have it tying nicely with the Flame Imperishable in the elves that the Valar jealously want"

I am thrilled to hear it is working so far!

"The Valar are never meant to be living with the elves and be their rulers. There's too much of power imbalance for them not to abuse that power in the name of the good."

I agree with you so much!  This is like, one of my major problems with the Valar and their 'rule' of Arda.  They can essentially enforce anything they want by right of might; they can annihilate nations and entire people who rebel against their rule.  So when they flex their muscles and insert themselves into the affairs of the Children -like how they did when Feanor drew his sword on Fingolfin which was an internal Noldor matter that Finwe should have and needed to address-- it opens the door to all kinds of problems.

"I assume Celebrian found out about Valar's dirty little secret through Elmirion's mirror?"

Oooo she could have gotten the idea that way!  I had thought that the Third Age Elves like Elrond, Celebrain, Glorinfdel ect had brainstormed a host of ideas in preparation for their way against the Valar, and trying to influence them/sway them to their side with Oswene was one of their ideas, and Celebrain was the first one to get a change to use it and was desperate enough to try even if it backfired spectacularly.

"Wow I feel so many plots and side plots cross and in parallel - this is so complex in a magnificent way. I can't wait for Caranthir to show up and meet Elmirion!"

Ahhhh!  I love hearing this!  Thank you!  And yay for Caranthir and Elmirion's coming meeting!  I can't wait either :grins:

"urghhh My gut feel is Varda wants to restore Turgon back to Noldor Kingship, by releasing Maeglin :("

Save us all!  But I am thinking even the Valar are smart enough not to bet on the dead horse.  Turgon's reputations is in such tatters that even if he only had to win the popularity with his own people from Gondolin he might be in trouble at this point.  

Thank you so, so much for this lovely review!  It's so wonderful to hear you are still enjoying the story (despite the sluggish updates)!


Name: merwinem (Signed) · Date: October 27, 2018 19:47 · For: Chapter 15
Thank you for these chapters! I wasn’t expecting to see Elmirion and Maeglin so soon and this was a wonderful surprise!

I’m glad Maeglin had an opportunity to get to know the Noldor anew, to be introduced to them outside the toxic society of Gondolin. Helping the Reborn break through the Valar’s enchantments is an excellent use of his gift. Elrond, once he arrives in Valinor, might be able to help as well. He was probably the one who fixed whatever Galadriel broke inside Maglor’s head, so he already has some experience in healing minds. And he has a Ring!

I like the parallel between Elmirion and Feanor - people stop to listen to them, but generally dislike them for some reason. I hope this isn’t foreshadowing of things to come, though. I’m hoping the Elves’ attitudes toward Feanor change by the end of the story – if they had listened to him in the first place (before the Darkening), they probably wouldn’t still be under the Valar’s thumb.

The Elmirion/Maeglin romance was set up pretty well, considering that the events took place over a single chapter. Well done! At the moment things are relatively uncomplicated for the pair of them. Of course this is only an illusion of safety - all it will take is just a single person who recognises Maeglin or Elmirion (who can probably be easily identified by anyone who knew Celebrimbor).

I’m not sure how Maeglin fits into Varda’s plan to topple Idril. I doubt he can reveal any information that can undermine her. I assume the slaughter of the Silvan Elves who tried to escape the valley of Gondolin is common knowledge. And in any case, that was Turgon’s fault more so than Idril’s. Maybe Varda expects Idril to give Maeglin a punishment that is so over the top (especially considering that he doesn’t even remember his crime) that public opinion turns against her?

So… I guess if Varda wants to overthrow Idril, she will have to replace her with someone else. The Valar need a pliant ruler in Tirion, and Finwe is the only pro-Valar Noldo King. If Finwe comes back it will be interesting to see what his perspective on past three Ages is. And he has a lot to make up for, so he better get started right away. In any case, Valinor is becoming a Gordian knot, and I’m looking forward to seeing how you untangle it!

I think the new information about the Valar requires its own review. I’ll see if I can organize my thoughts and post it in a few days :)

Author's Response:
Thank you so much for the review!!!  

I remember that you guessed a while back that Maeglin and Elmirion would be reborn together.  When writing the rebirth process I was doubly glad they had each other since it seems like such a lonely experience.  While they have all these other Reborn around them, the struggle to remember and the fears of never remembering is a heavy burden that needs a friend (and that's not even mentioning how difficult it will be once people start finding out who they are).

"I’m glad Maeglin had an opportunity to get to know the Noldor anew, to be introduced to them outside the toxic society of Gondolin. Helping the Reborn break through the Valar’s enchantments is an excellent use of his gift."

I am glad he got to get to know the Noldor outside of Gondolin too; it will really help him when he starts getting his memories of Gondolin back.  I also didn't forget what you said in your review on Maeglin's story about how his liberal, compassless use of the mind-arts really bothered you.  It left me thinking more deeply about it, and how I could incorporate that into character growth/ a plot point for him, so thank you again for pointing that out!  I really like the idea of him being instrumental in the Reborn regaining their memories and using a power he had once used for ill now for good.  Elrond should be able to help too, tho he is still a few decades from sailing, I think (I am not 100% sure when in the 3rd Age this is happening, but somewhere in the last century).

It's interesting that you mentioned how Elmirion reminds you of Feanor, as I spent a while thinking about which of the Curufinwes he resembles most.  They defiantly all have that ability to rub people the wrong way!  I think they all have a lot in common, more than just the first glance of a love for crafting lol  They are all pretty terrible at politics, for one thing -looking at you too Curufin!  Curufin makes an attempt to play the game in Nargothrod, but Finrod vastly over-estimates his talent for it.  I don't think Curufin's plans to steal half of Finrod's army would have actually worked out if Finrod was still around, and, of course, we see how badly the debacle with Luthian turned out.  I don't think Curufin's failure to hold onto power in Nargothrond had so much to do with Luthian and Beren spreading the word of Finrod's death and trying to spin it all to be the Feanorion's fault, as it did the simple fact that Curufin wasn't well-liked and didn't actively charm people to get what he wanted.  He didn't really pretend to be someone he wasn't, and so no amount of spy networks or plotting could overcome his shear unlikeabilty to most of Nargothrond.  It wasn't Curufin who gained most of the loyalty the Feanorion's captured in Nargothrond, after all, but Celegorm.  That doesn't mean Curufin doesn't have charisma -we see that he does when he speaks before the assembled people of Nargothrond-- but he isn't a natural charmer, and, coupled with his cold and haughty exterior, he doesn't make allies easily. 

I used to think Elmirion resembled Celebrimbor most, but the more I thought about him, the more I thought he had the most in common with Curufin.  But I remember Celebrimbor seeing Feanor strongly in his son. The major difference I see between Curufin and Elmorion and Feanor is how they deal with their hurt and how they tackle problems.  Feanor is very outwardly expressive in a lot of ways, and can be, honestly, dramatic, whereas Curufin and Elmerion will keep the hurt inside.  Similarly, when Feanor believes in something he will charge in and try to fix it head on, but Elmorion and Curufin are behind the scenes planners and plotters.  Well, at least those are my current insights into Elmrion's character, but we haven't seen him much so far, so maybe he will turn out differently :)

"I’m hoping the Elves’ attitudes toward Feanor change by the end of the story – if they had listened to him in the first place (before the Darkening), they probably wouldn’t still be under the Valar’s thumb."

Yes, I am hoping that the Elves who have demonized for so long are able to finally see his humanity in the end.  He's not a monster, just a flawed man who loved with everything he is and wanted the best for his people.  How different things could have been if he'd gotten his wish and was able to lead all those who wanted to out of Valinor before Melkor struck!  If Feanor and his people had reached Beleriand tho peaceful means and were able to connect with the local inhabitants without the shadow of Alqualondë hanging over them and the Oath enslaving them!  But then, that would have been an entirely different book.

"The Elmirion/Maeglin romance was set up pretty well, considering that the events took place over a single chapter. Well done! At the moment things are relatively uncomplicated for the pair of them. Of course this is only an illusion of safety - all it will take is just a single person who recognizes Maeglin or Elmirion (who can probably be easily identified by anyone who knew Celebrimbor)."

Yes, it really is only the illusion of safety; the rug can so easily be pulled out from under their feet :(  It's interesting you called Elmirion and Maeglin's relationship a romance, it got me thinking about how little I write sex that isn't romantic in natural -something for me to consider expanding on.  I hadn't seen Elmrion and Maeglin's relationship as romantic, but it is defiantly more intimate than a friend's with benefits affair.  I am not quite sure how to quantify it...maybe the characters will decided they want a romance and forget what I think lol

" Maybe Varda expects Idril to give Maeglin a punishment that is so over the top (especially considering that he doesn’t even remember his crime) that public opinion turns against her?"

Yeah, that is what Varda is hoping for.  Idril has name a lot of enemies, most in the reborn Gondolindhrim, but if she were to try to execute Maeglin they would be the only ones happy about it.  While Maeglin is the ultimate villain in the Gondolhrim's books, he is a hero to the Wood-elves who escaped Gondolin and they spread the word of what happened in Gondolin among their people.  And while the Wood-Elves aren't in Valinor, some of their mixed descendants are, as well as some Sindar, and, of course, the Teleri.  How much some of these folks will care about Maeglin's actions in Gondolin is debatable, but at least they will be running with an alternative narrative to the 'born evil' 'super villain one the Gondolindhrim want everyone to believe.  But we will see if Idril plays into Varda's hands of not; Varda does have a history of her plans blowing up in her face.  While she understands the Elves better now that she absorbed Irime, she is still quite alien and a lot goes over her head.  She expects Idril to revile Maeglin, but does she?  And if she does, is she short-sighted enough to fall into the Valar's trap?

"The Valar need a pliant ruler in Tirion, and Finwe is the only pro-Valar Noldo King. If Finwe comes back it will be interesting to see what his perspective on past three Ages is. And he has a lot to make up for, so he better get started right away."

You read my mind, yet again!  Finwe is who they would look to next.  Tho you are quite right to ask if he will emerge from Mandos the same man the Valar remember.

" In any case, Valinor is becoming a Gordian knot, and I’m looking forward to seeing how you untangle it!"

I love hearing this!!!  We have officially left the beaten path of cannon, and I confess that I worry about my ability to weave an interesting and complex plot line without the framework of cannon that I have been working around up to now.  Even tho trying to fight things around the basic framework of cannon has been a headache at times, it always pushed the story forward in a general direction.  I don't feel lost without it, as I have a clear idea of the basic plot points, but that doesn't mean I don't worry that what I've cook-up will pass inspection :)

Thank you ever so much for this great review, and your continued and priceless support as I inch my way through the story :hugs:


Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: October 26, 2018 12:17 · For: Chapter 16

Elmírion and Maeglin! I a so pleased to see the, and that they have been reborn together! I have missed them, even if they are not yet who they were. {{{Hugs them}}}


But I am fascinated an appalled by Varda’s machinations and utterly horrified at what she has done, and how she is trying to break Fëanor through lies. I am incandescent with fury! 
Not wanting to utterly destroy the Noldor but keep them unthreatening, as good pets. Well, I think this plan is going to fall on it’s backside spectacularly! And Irimë’s soul? really? Good god, I hope she does not come back in any way, Glorfindel suffered enough! There’s a great deal of similarity between Varda and Irimë however! And all for Melkor...? Well that makes sense! 
(By the bye, Celebrían’s act with Estë was actually quite brilliant) 
And who, WHO, is the soul Varda now has? My god, these chapters were amazing, I shall have to read through again when I have finished my work! Well done! Plans within plans, plots within plots! 




Author's Response:

I am glad at least Maeglin and Elmirion are together!  It would have been too sad for Maeglin to be reborn alone –not only because of this beginning period of his rebirth, but think of how bad it’s going to get once it gets out that he’s back?  He needs a true friend.  I don’t want his second life to turn into the level of tragedy he endured in his first life, poor baby.

I feel you about Varda!  Hasn’t Feanor suffered enough?  And yes, Irime’s soul, could it be anyone worse!  Because, although Varda is either in denial or is unaware, Irime has had more influence on Varda’s personality then she acknowledges.  The Varda of before was pretty checked-out from the affairs of Arda and the Children, she didn’t even care that much about Melkor anymore, she’d become numb to it all.  She felt like what the Valar really are: alien life.  But the moment Irime’s soul was infused with Varda’s, Varda ‘awoke.’  Not only did Varda suddenly start caring again –her passion for Melkor reawakened—but, just like with Este, only to a lesser extent, what Irime loved, Varda loved, and what Irime hated, Varda hated.  I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Varda choose to try and destroy Feanor above all else, whether she realizes she singled out Feanor because of Irime’s hatred of him or not.  On the other hand, Varda’s compromised feelings about Glorfindel and Maglor might just be the only thing that gets them to Valinor.  With Manwe reawaked, I could easily see him trying to destroy any ship Glorfindel and Maglor sailed back on.  So it might just be another example of the Valar shooting themselves in the foot.

(By the bye, Celebrían’s act with Estë was actually quite brilliant)”

I am glad you liked it!  I think it was a plan the rebel Elves of the Third Age came up with as a potential way to try and get the souls of the dead free.  I think they have spent a lot of time brainstorming ideas, and Celebrain was able to put one into practice.  I imagine the Elves originally envisioned one of the more powerful Valar like Niennor or Irmo or Ulmo, or all of them at once, as who they’d try to influence, but with so many Valar fading, Celebrain made due with what she had.  I think it worked out for the best tho, Este is one of the least powerful as well as being one of the less controlling ones, and thus more receptive to being influenced.  I don’t think Celebrain knew exactly what would happen when she used Óswine on a Valar, but she got great results!  She is Galadriel’s daughter after all, I think her mind-magic has quite a kick to it!

“And who, WHO, is the soul Varda now has?”

For Manwe?  A poor Vanyar child killed during the Purge (when the Valar dragged all Finarfin’s allies off to become puppets at their feet).  Varda wanted a young, malleable soul, and thought a Vanya would tickle Manwe the most.  But she had to wait for a Vanya child to die –something that doesn’t happen often.  In fact, this child might be one of the first, maybe even THE first Vanyar child to die since the Elves came to Valinor.  After all, the Vanyar children were not brought to the War of Wrath.  I don’t imagine Manwe wanted to fuse with a Noldo child tho, and other then them there were only the Teleri to choose from.  If any children died in the Kinslaying, then they were long reborn.  And that is a big IF.  Personally, it doesn’t make sense to me that Teleri children would have died in the Kinslaying since Feanor was trying to steal the ships.  Logically, he would have tried to take them when the city slept.  From there the battle spread out along the beaches and docks, maybe the neighborhoods next to the docks, but maybe not.  I think it depends on how long the battle lasted.  But we don’t know many details about any of the Kinslayings.  Anyway, since the Sindar, Silvan ect never entered Mandos, Varda seized upon the child’s soul.  A truly despicable crime.

Thank you so much for your review!  I am feeling nervous about how long it’s taking to get to the ‘main’ action, so it’s wonderful to hear how much you are still enjoying it :hugs: 



Name: kasura (Signed) · Date: September 04, 2018 5:17 · For: Chapter 14
Let me repeat myself, what complex worldbuilding you have done so far, with the political unrest and cultural clashing between the Exiles and different elven races in Valinor, the Underground Resistance, and the stifling neo Doriath, where Thingol got even crazier and more sick with his ego boost, and these Sindar, either too brainwashed or too afraid to challenge Thingol, just turn blind to the evils things he did, or enable him to create more evils. I don’t feel so far this arc is tying up loose ends, it’s like tying up some ends, and then unravel more loose ends, more questions, and new challenges. It’s amazing…I am loving your chapters so much :)

Melian’s enslavement by Thingol surprised me lol. I just assume she was sent there by the Valar to corral the Sindar and preach Valinorean values to them. Hmm I guess the Valar don’t really care whether Melian was enslaved by them or enslaved by Poldorea…as long as they got Luthien’s descendants to bring the Silmaril to them and ruled the Men, they don’t care who’s the Enslaver. And do the Valar not care Poldorea still can exert some power despite being dead? Am glad the Silvan found out about the Land, and stopped their sacrifices to the Land.

So now that begs the question of whether the Silvan will fight with their fellow Valinor elves against the Valar. Having their belief smashed by Elured/Elurin telling them the truth, would they now see the Valar as a more sinister force, being in the same cohort as Poldorea, will that be enough to motivate the Silvan to fight against the Valar? I think with more of their own like Legolas of Greenwood losing the fight against sea longing and sailing to Valinor, I can see the Silvan edging towards fighting against these oppressors. But the Sindar, forget it…I don’t see the Sindar lifting their fingers against the Valar. They will sit tight in their neo Doriath, business as usual. At the worst I can see the Sindar trying to sabotage the war against the Valar?

And ENTERS Caranthir!!! He’s one of my fav Feanorions…and he doesn’t disappoint! I love love how he’s grumpy, no nonsense, say it as it is, non-apologetic & absolute devotion to his family and Curufin. The way he deals with Thingol, you go Caranthir!!! And he takes Elured & Elurin under his wings, because these two needs someone like Caranthir to protect and watch out for them. Their relatives are perfectly okay turning blind eyes to Thingol abusing them…but Caranthir steps in to save the twins. Now they have each other – sniffles. Can’t wait for the twins to meet Elrond. Elrond would be so shocked by his uncles got adopted by Caranthir :)

BTW Caranthir’s rebirth is pppppperfect!

Caranthir arriving in Valinor will be so interesting. Everyone has changed…Finarfin, Finrod, Angrod…they all changed so I am eager to see Caranthir interacting with the transformed Arafinwean side of the extended family. I think Caranthir will see them in a different light….looking forward to how Curufin/Caranthir/Finrod tangle is going to be sorted out XD

Author's Response:
"I don’t feel so far this arc is tying up loose ends, it’s like tying up some ends, and then unravel more loose ends, more questions, and new challenges. It’s amazing…I am loving your chapters so much "

Thank you!!!!  I feel you on this too, it does feel like there are even MORE things to explore, rather then was winding up to the end.  To be honest, it's more than a little overwhelming when I think about how long I imagine this story is going to be, but at the same time I am itching to write so many character again and final get a chance to give them some happiness!

"Melian’s enslavement by Thingol surprised me lol."

I am glad it was a surprise!  Honestly, I could see it going either way for these two: Melian the enslaver/enchantress, or Thingol being the one.  Either way, their relationship does not strike me as a happy romance.  As for the Valar not caring about Thingol wielding her Power, I think it's more that they don't seem to care about what happens in Middle-earth in general.  They never did anything about the many Maiar who followed Melkor after they captured Melkor, they just let them run loose around Middle-earth!  I do think they would care about Poldorea tho, I just don't think they know it was him behind Melian's chaining.  They have to have some idea that the two dead Valar are still present in the world, but I think they underestimate them, thinking they a defeated foe -they definitely underestimated Melkor, after all, when they let him loose.

Will the Silvan fight in the war is a good question.  You are right that there are reasons for them to see the Valar as their enemies, but at the same time, are they willing to leave Middle-earth that they love to go to a foreign land and fight alongside their once-oppressors, the Noldor?  Some have reason to go to Valinor like Eol and Bregolas who will seek Maeglin, but what of the others who have no loved ones there?  It's a big question, and one that could potentially swing the war in the Elves' favor if they can band together against a common foe.  But will they be able to let old hurts go, even for their common freedom?  I think it's a question the Teleri will be facing in Valinor too.  

I am so thrilled you liked Caranthir :happy jig:  He always needs more love   I wish there were more stories centered around him.

"Caranthir arriving in Valinor will be so interesting. Everyone has changed…Finarfin, Finrod, Angrod…they all changed so I am eager to see Caranthir interacting with the transformed Arafinwean side of the extended family. I think Caranthir will see them in a different light….looking forward to how Curufin/Caranthir/Finrod tangle is going to be sorted out XD"

You bring up an excellent point about everything having changed!  I, too, wonder how his interactions with the Arafinwean's will be.  There can be no doubt they share a common goal.  But will he be holding grudges against them and vis versa?  I think Caranthir is a guy who can be surprisingly forgiving as long as the person he's got a problem with acknowledges their fault and starts shaping up.  If, for instance Finrod, starts calling him a Kinsalayer and shoving all his own guilt about Alquendie onto Caranthir, Caranthir is not going to take that lying down, but if Finrod is welcoming and sees Caranthir as his family first, then, even with how jealous Caranthir was over Curufin, I think Carnathir could work with Finrod with only the usual about of arguments (Carnathir will still be Caranthir lol).  Aegnor and his meeting will be an interesting one too, seeing as they cannonly butted heads a lot.  They both have hasty tempers and fiery personalities, but Aegnor remembers nothing of their past and both he and Caranthir are people who don't like to gnaw on grudges.  I can see them clashing often because of their personalities, but getting over it quickly as long as the other does.

Thank you so much for the review!  You sparked ideas in my head with this discussion!!!



Name: Spiced Wine (Signed) · Date: September 03, 2018 21:07 · For: Chapter 14
It's all so sad, and even more so when I think about Curufin. Feanor's own son had lost the heart of who Feanor was, thinking that getting vengeance would have made Feanor happier than seeing Curufin learning to live on without him.

That is so so heartbreaking. One of the most gut-wrenching pieces of writing I have ever read, published or no, is Cururfin’s breakdown after the Beren and Lúthien meeting. And later, before the attack on Doriath when he was almost mad, really. Celebrimbor thought he had forgotten who Fëanor was, and you’re right; he had.

One of the things I love, though, is that there is so much story in this, so much to write about, because it;s not going to be a case of reborn = happy-ever-after.

Author's Response:
"That is so so heartbreaking. One of the most gut-wrenching pieces of writing I have ever read, published or no, is Cururfin’s breakdown after the Beren and Lúthien meeting."

I remember weeping when I was writing that scene.  It was such an emotional wringer; Curufin made me love his character absolutely in that moment, and I have wanted nothing but some damn happiness for my baby ever since.  
Curufin really had forgotten who Feanor was, tho.  And I have no doubt Feanor will blame himself for Curufin self-destruction.  Of course swearing the Oath had a large part in Curufin's breaking, but equally did the doubts and guilt Curufin suffering after Melkor's killing of Finwe, and if Feanor had been more himself, he would have seen something was wrong and done everything he could to make Curufin understand the depth of his love.  But that didn't happen, so the doubts were never silenced and continued to grow over the years until they consumed Curufin.

"One of the things I love, though, is that there is so much story in this, so much to write about, because it;s not going to be a case of reborn = happy-ever-after."

Yes, that's so true.  Rebirth will not erase what came before, and wiping their memories is not healing, it's just another form of destruction.  So the dead will be reborn knowing exactly what not only dying felt like, but what if left like to loose the ones they loved.  I wonder if this will become a crippling fear for some of the reborn?  Will they fear to face-off against the Valar because they are afraid of loosing their loved ones again?....hmm, I think that's something to explore...



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