Really, though, it’s been so long since I wrote this story that I was reading that excerpt and scratching my head. Where does Caranthir fit into this story? Lol I am going to have to re-read/do some serious editing I am sure.
Honestly that's actually just me picking up random flashbacks that are 100% unrelated with the plot lol.
It's the part where Elenwë remembers de Kinslaying!
Oh, I see now! I was really drawing a blank as to where Caranthir fit into this story lol But I love that you zeroed in on that little glimpse of him :)
"The war was over, but one would think after 40 years at war she would have learned never to leave Finarfin’s side without seeing to a proper guard in her place, no matter what Finarfin said about being ‘fine.’ The last time she’d left Finarfin with and ‘I’m fine, go,’ he’d managed to get tangled up into an Orc ambush. It was better than the incident with the dragon, or the Balrog before that, but he seemed to attract danger like dead meat flies. It would have been amusing if there weren’t so many knives in her belly."
Ah ah is there anyone in the House of Finwë that isn't attracting danger?
There is a mistake at one point, you switched Fingolfin with Finarfin! As much as I would have loved to see Fingolfin again, that wasn't him! There is also a mistake on Mairon/Marion and since it's my sister's name, I admit it's been troubling XD
Now I have to read the Price of Duty as well because obviously, there were a lot of things I missed there, BUT I really liked the part about the Ainur and the possibility for rebellion. Especially since we already talked about this before :)
“Ah ah is there anyone in the House of Finwë that isn't attracting danger?”
For Finarfin though, I fear it is more that he is seeking that danger out :( At this point in his life….I don’t think he has a whole lot to live for. And Elenwë is seriously worried.
“There is a mistake at one point, you switched Fingolfin with Finarfin! As much as I would have loved to see Fingolfin again, that wasn't him! There is also a mistake on Mairon/Marion and since it's my sister's name, I admit it's been troubling XD”
Thank you for pointing this out! It’s fixed now, sorry! Gods, it’s been so long since I wrote this story that I am cringing inside thinking of all the mistakes it’s no-doubt littered with :( I hope it wasn’t too distracting!
“Now I have to read the Price of Duty as well because obviously, there were a lot of things I missed there, BUT I really liked the part about the Ainur and the possibility for rebellion. Especially since we already talked about this before :)”
:bits lip: Oh gosh, now I am getting really self-conscious thinking about that story. It was one of the first fan fiction I ever wrote and….it shows. I am just going to apologize in advance for all the mistakes I am sure it’s littered with!
But thank you for telling me you are going to read it, because it gave me the push I needed to go back and write in some scenes I’d been meaning to for…um…over a year :cringe: I am a terrible procrastinator lol but at least it’s done now. Not the best writing ever, but at least they’re written!
"Caranthir, the dark son of Fëanor, standing on the water’s edge, the waves hissing like angry snakes about his boots as if trying to sink their fangs into his flesh; he hurled rocks into the sea, over and over again, stepping over bodies to search for more stones, his face mercifully shadowed by the dark, until one of his brothers came to draw him away"
<3 (yes this is constructiv reviewing)
Really, though, it’s been so long since I wrote this story that I was reading that excerpt and scratching my head. Where does Caranthir fit into this story? Lol I am going to have to re-read/do some serious editing I am sure.
This is a nice sunday afternoon and I am starting this! Woot!
Yay Finarfin will be in the story!
There is a very real feeling of emptyness at the beginning of the chapter. First the erasure of knowledge about Mandos (I reread Lintamandë's words about Mandos and the unfairness that it is recently, so MUCH can be used for fanfiction! I mean, we know Miriel was released, but if she felt like Elenwë, no wonder she never truly returned). Also the departure of those who could depart, and the others who remain locked in memories. Tirion must be very gloomy now.
I am really happy to meet your Amarië. I usually find your female characters interesting and am currently searching for headcanons for them. I like how you make each of them unique in their own way.
I remember being a bit surprised when I read you set Finrod as the one who would be a "monotheist" since he is, like Turgon, linked with Ulmo, but I guess this is also because the first time I read about someone praying to Eru rather than to the Valar, it was Fëanor in Dawn Felagund's Another man's cage. But then, Fëanor easily gets all the spotlight all the time if we are'nt careful. Do you remember why you gave these beliefs to Finrod rather than to another one of his brothers or cousins?
"The Noldor called the Vanyar snotty behind their backs, the Teleri called them patronizing. It was an Age-old vice of their people that they thought themselves just that little bit higher than other Elves. Once it had been because of their devotion to the Valar, now it was their culture, the way they had broken free of the Valar’s bindings while the Noldor they lived amongst had come back to them, or never left."
Ah ah si is so very true. I think IRL Amarië would be someone I would hate. And seriously, they have broken free? After the massive rebellion of the Noldor, they are followers rather than leaders here.
When I read about Idril in the Price of Vengeance, she reminded be of a Tumblr Social Justice blogger. I mean she did try, but I can totally imagine her reblogging something Elenwë posted to tell her how PROBLEMATIC this is. I have a friend who acts like this and I have been trying to explain to her that she would convince no one if she kept acting like the had the Truth and they were children, that she couldn't just get angry at everyone and scream at them. She answered that she was Right and she fought for Good so she could. We are both feminists, so we really defend the same ideas, but that kind of behavior really makes me want to facepalm.
“There is a very real feeling of emptyness at the beginning of the chapter. First the erasure of knowledge about Mandos (I reread Lintamandë's words about Mandos and the unfairness that it is recently, so MUCH can be used for fanfiction! I mean, we know Miriel was released, but if she felt like Elenwë, no wonder she never truly returned). Also the departure of those who could depart, and the others who remain locked in memories. Tirion must be very gloomy now.”
I am glad this feeling came through in the story. It’s exactly how I envision Tirion post-exile. I doubt more then maybe 20,000-30,000 Noldor stayed in Tirion originally. More returned with Finarfin, but I got the feeling that the majority of Finarfin’s followers carried on with Finrod and Finarfin’s other children rather then returning to Tirion. There were probably less than 100,000 Noldor in Valinor after Finarfin’s return. They had some kids after that, of course, but I think the population growth was almost non-existent. In Middle-earth I head-cannon that Elves gradually lost the ability to control when they had children (unless their minds/bodies/hearts were under extreme stress in which case they had no children (like in the last years of Beleriand when there was food shortages and despair and Morgoth’s poison leached into the land itself). But for the Elves in Valinor the Valar were still right there, and I think the Valar wanted to keep the Elven population low (and controllable. They didn’t want to risk another large Elven host). So even after the time of grief and shock passed for the Elves in Valinor, I don’t think their population did much growing.
“I remember being a bit surprised when I read you set Finrod as the one who would be a "monotheist" since he is, like Turgon, linked with Ulmo, but I guess this is also because the first time I read about someone praying to Eru rather than to the Valar, it was Fëanor in Dawn Felagund's Another man's cage. But then, Fëanor easily gets all the spotlight all the time if we are'nt careful. Do you remember why you gave these beliefs to Finrod rather than to another one of his brothers or cousins?”
Actually, if I re-wrote Vengeance, I wouldn’t make Finrod a religious figure. I do like the element of Eru worship in the story, but I wish I’d written Finrod as a figure who was more concerned with human rights then religious rights. I think that fits more with his character, and it is who I think Finarfin would have been if he’d been raised in another family, and I like the idea of Finrod being so much like his father. I do want Finrod to have been seen as a bit of a fanatic in Valinor though, and then he mellowed with age and life. I like that for him. Only not a religious fanatic. I think though, he would have been difficult to hold a conversation with in Valinor unless you were ready to debat. He loved debating. I don’t think he was one of those people who tried to run over everyone elses arguments, all self-rightious and snotty in their belief in their own rightness. He would want to hear your arguments, and then spend hours, days, talking about them, and trying to convince you of his own believes….but not in a self-rioughious way, but a self-assured one, defiantly. He isn’t someone easily swayed, that’s for sure, but even in Valinor he wasn’t an ass about it.
One day I am going to re-write that part of this story. As for who the religious lead of the Eru religious was….hmm…I’ll have to figure that one out. I could definaltly see Finrod as being a member of the religious when it first started out, but then pulling away as it grew more ridged and ceremonial. I wonder if it was someone he knew that began it? Maybe it was Amarië?
“I think IRL Amarië would be someone I would hate. And seriously, they have broken free? After the massive rebellion of the Noldor, they are followers rather than leaders here.”
Liol I know. And I wouldn’t like Amarië in real life either. In fact, I don’t think Finrod would either. Not the person Finrod grew into in Beleriand. I wonder what their meeting will be like after he’s re-born? Well, I don’t think she’s been pinning over him all these years, so at least there won’t be any broken-hearts.
“When I read about Idril in the Price of Vengeance, she reminded be of a Tumblr Social Justice blogger. I mean she did try, but I can totally imagine her reblogging something Elenwë posted to tell her how PROBLEMATIC this is. I have a friend who acts like this and I have been trying to explain to her that she would convince no one if she kept acting like the had the Truth and they were children, that she couldn't just get angry at everyone and scream at them. She answered that she was Right and she fought for Good so she could. We are both feminists, so we really defend the same ideas, but that kind of behavior really makes me want to facepalm.”
This does sound like the kind of person Idril is! She’s so….frustrating in Gondolin. I suppose she’s trying, but she doesn’t really understand anything. She’s all worried about the Silvan having voices in government when they are still being treated like slaves. I don’t think she ever visited the Silvan’s city, or went to the fields where they were laboring so the Noldor could live in comfort.
Thank you for the review! I am glad you enjoyed the story :) I remember it was interesting to right about some characters I hadn’t gotten a chance to explore before. This was the story I fell for Finarfin while writing. He blinded-sided me! Now one of my favorite ships that has yet to ever be written is Finarfin x happiness lol
I forgot your Finrod is earmarked for Curifin. I have been reading Spiced Wine and so have Finrod/Celegorm in my head but of course You have Celegorm all sorted out for someone else :) and that pairing makes perfect sense!!
So yes Finrod is going to have to be well and truly all fixed up before Curufin arrives or it will be one unholy disaster.
As for Finarfin holding his children's choices against them........oh no never! I don't think the thought has even entered his mind. Finarfin is all about beating himself up. Its all his fault........he thinks!
Oh Spiced Wine’s Celegorm/Finrod is sooooooo good! I like reading Finrod with either one –Celegorm or Curufin—the element of betrayal and two oaths tearing them in different directions is there with both, as well as all that history of Valinor and the ship burning :)
I agree with you 100% that Finarfin takes all the blame onto himself, the poor guy! He really does need someone who can see his worth and help him see it too, and forgive himself for not following his children down into whatever fate.
Thanks again for the reviews :hugs:
I skim read through this before I suggested it to you as a submission...... And then skim reading wasn't enough and I had to re-read it properly.
I had forgotten how much I loved this story, especially all the women which we see so little of in fanfiction and in the real thing. To see a whole story based upon them all is delightful.
And Elenwe, how I love her. Seeing Turgon through her eyes is a revelation and I SO want to see him achieve becoming the Elf she knows he can be.
To share that glorious kiss with Finarfin and then say "my heart is taken" ....so beautiful, oh Turgon you are a lucky man....and even better he knows it. The one thing you cant accuse Turgon of is not appreciating Elenwe. He sees her true self and value just as much as she sees his.
And poor, poor, honourable lonely Finarfin. How he needs somebody to love him. As I read this I ache for Finrod to come back, at least so he has someone, although that relationship wont be without its problems either.
A beautiful wonderful surprising story. One of my favourites!
Gosh it just makes my day to know this story stood up for a second read through! Thank you so much for the lovely review :hugs:
Yes, for all Turgon’s faults he does know he’s a lucky man to have Elenwë for a wife. Her death absolutely destroyed him. I hope he can become the man she once saw in him, but he does have a long road of healing and self-confrontation.
Oh Finarfin! I quite fell in love with him, and want him to be happy so badly! He needs someone like Elenwë who can see his worth. I want Finrod to be re-born too and start his own healing process. I think Finrod needs to be in a good place by the time Curufin gets re-born. Curufin will have so many of his own problems, and if Finrod wasn’t able to forgive him their story would be over before it began. Finrod will no doubt have some issues to work through with his father though, I wonder if there is any part of Finarfin that hasn’t forgiven his children for choosing Beleriand over him…but no, I can’t see that. He blames himself entirely for not being the one to follow them.
Thanks again for the review, my dear :hugs:
I just read the story again and it struck me how Caranthir is, by Elenwe's definition, the truest Noldor. He was the only cursing, fuming and throwing stones in Alqualonde. Something Finarfin wouldn't and couldn't do.
I love the comparision, because all Noldor could be more like Caranthir. Or rather, like the Feanorians. Yet I wonder if Elenwe knows what she's asking for when she says Finarfin has too much restraint. Noldor are supposed to be like fire, but a single spark can light a forest aflame. Sadly Tolkien never mentions it or perhaps Middle Earth is too cold to have them occur naturally, but for most Elves who idolize trees (Doriath / Mirkwood) forest fires would be devastating.
Like war, they are horrifing. Destroying homes and lives. Thankfully I live in a country where I don't have to fear natural catastrophes every season, but I imagine the Noldor could be this way. Now I want a story where the Noldor (and the other Elves) are freed but have to face irredeemable changes afterwards. Something that makes people like Elenwe question the wisdom of their choices, because the quiet rebellion / new freedom will have their price.
Especially if the two Valar return. Will some Elves forever refuse to leave Manwe's rule? Or will the Elvish race lose their odd sense of community? I always found it odd that they're so upset about the Kinslaying when the ethnic groups weren't exactly close friends before. Not to mention the Elvish Race has never known unity! While Ingwe is theoretically Highking, he never enforced it. Never truly used it. Even if he could order Olwe / Finwe / Thingol around, they wouldn't listen. They don't treat him as their King.
I think Fingolfin's and Feanor's feud made a lot of people project their different ideolgies / problems onto them. Like Finarfin and Caranthir, they different people by nature. Their upbringing and history are just a small factor.
And, to get back to the irrevocable changes I mentioned earlier: I don't quite envision the Feanorian's as Firebender's when the new war is done, but it comes close. They are already on the brink of becoming something different. Neither Ainur nor monsters, but they cannot stay "mortal" either. The gap is growing bigger, I mean Feanor created the Silmarils before the First Age. Imagine what he could do after watching Middle Earth for three more Ages.
Random thoughts on your 'verse end here now. If you want to reply by mail, simply write me. (firstname.lastname@example.org - if you like. I have more headcanon's to share.)
Thank you so much for the review :hugs: I am replying to you in an e-mail, so if something wonky happens and you don't get it let me know. We have to continue this conversion, it's so interesting!
You have me completely conflicted about these three now I hope you know,( Finarfin, Turgon and Elenwe). I have been doing a bit of thinking lately about Turgon. Since Finrod ended up stuck with him accidentally in my Silmarillion story) I haven't liked Turgon. He is just boring. But now I kind of feel like he got a rough deal and a lot of that might be down to Fingolfin. Turgon lived his life in Fingon's shadow. Fingon who was brave, charming, likeable and Turgon obviously is harder to like than Fingon. He doesn't have the easy charm. He has to work hard at building relationships because people just don't warm to him.
Elenwe obviously sees a Turgon that we don't see, she gave up so much for him. Went to live somewhere she was judged by others. I think she is able to see Turgon as he was meant to be before he was messed up with Finweion issues and believe me tense, uptight Turgon has a red flag flying over his head saying " look I have issues!"
Even when reading the Silm The first time I remember thinking Fingolfin favoured Fingon and by doing so he just perpetuated Finwes mistakes. You think he would have learned to avoid that having been on the receiving end himself but he didn't. Poor Turgon trying so hard to be perfect. Do things right and never ever going to match Fingon because he was just not as personable and all his strengths that Elenwe sees none of the rest of us give any credence to.
So I don't think I want him to lose Elenwe, the only person really to see his true worth and appreciate him. ........ But then what about lonely Finarfin??
And Finrod coming back, will that help Finarfin or make things worse. If the Valar meddled with his mind then .. Well that might send Finarfin over the edge. Break his self control because I cannot see him as he is now tolerating the Valar doing anything to "damage" or alter his children . But if Finrod comes back whole then he may not be very happy with his father who turned back, and rejection from Finrod would make things so much worse for Finarfin. Oh what a mess!
I am hearing what you’re saying, and it’s interesting, a different perspective for me, so thank you for that :D
I can’t say I think Fingolfin was actually showing favoritism to Fingon in Valinor, but I do think that Turgon thought there was, as he told Fingon just before Fingon died. He did always feel in Fingon’s shadow, just as Fingon felt in Turgon’s for so long. I don’t think Turgon and Fingon had a great relationship, they were very different people, and I don’t think, if they weren’t brothers, they would have really even spoken if they had just been strangers.
But I think Fingolfin tried hard to love each of his children equally, but yes, it might have seemed to Turgon’s eyes that Fingon was favored. Fingon and Fingolfin shared a special connection on account of being so alike, and I think Fingon’s insecurities were more apparent to Fingolfin (knowing them intimately himself), so he worked hard to try and breach them and give Fingon the love he deserved, but Turgon was more reserved. He defiantly had a thing with trying to be perfect (maybe because that’s what he thought would please his father the most). He was the quiet, studious one, and while I think Fingolfin shared a healthy relationship with him, it might have been more the kind of relationship that flourished in the quiet moments. Fingon was the kind of personality that took up a room, so I imagine in large gatherings, even the family dinning together, Fingon would have dominated the conversation, and pulled attention to himself naturally, and Turgon would have felt over-shadowed. (Especially as Aredhel was another loud personality –except for the days she was withdrawn and moody, and I imagine on those days Fingolfin’s attention was give to her, trying to understand and reach her).
I think Turgon was a good man in Valinor, the man Elenwe loved. He would have been fiercely devoted to his family, and I think he had a good relationship with Aredhel too.
“So I don't think I want him to lose Elenwe, the only person really to see his true worth and appreciate him”
I understand this completely, and if Turgon was still the man he was when Elenwe died, I would agree with you that he and Elenwe should get back together. But a lot of years went by, and Turgon changed. He withdrew into himself, became the kind of man who nursed vengeance, hate, and bitterness. He closed himself off. He became the kind of man who built secret cities, allowed thousands of Silvan to be oppressed (in this AU) under his rule (even if he was not a Silvan hater, he did nothing to cub his people), and he became the kind of man who blamed his own nephew for Aredhel’s death because he’d already thrown Eol to the rocks but that hadn’t stopped the pain so he needed some outlet for his grief, and as much as he tolerated Maeglin because he took after his mother in looks, I think a part of Turgon despised him for his Eol’s blood too.
I don’t think, in the end, Turgon was the man Elenwe loved. Whether he becomes that man again, or if Elenwe meets him in re-birth and can find nothing of that man within him any longer, is something I do not want to spoil :)
I think if Finrod comes back, even altered, it will help Finarfin, even as it hurts him. At least his son is alive, but I think it will make him fight against the Valar all the harder. If Finrod comes back whole…hmm. I think he might actually be more accepting of his father now, after what he understood about himself and his choices after the Kinslaying, then he would have been before. If he had died another way, without that revelation, and if Finarfin was still the Valar’s loyal dog, Finrod would have had nothing to do with his father. But just as Finrod has changed, so too has Finarfin, and once Finrod sees that, I think he may just build a stronger relationship with Finarfin then they had ever shared before (as I think Finarfin’s acceptance of the Valar and their laws had always come between them before).
You have got me thinking so much about these characters, I love it! Every time, every time you do this, it’s such a treat, such a wonderful privilege receiving your reviews. Thank you so much :squeeze:
Tense and thrilling! Gosh I wish I had read this earlier, especially because I am so dying to read loads about reborn elves right now!
I did not see this coming. I SO did not see this coming with Finarfin and Elenw
How on Earth did I miss this??? Thank you for pointing me in this direction!
It is as lovely, as compelling to read as all your others. I loved Elenw
I don't know how it is possible that I skipped this beautiful story. Perhaps because Fearie doesn't alert me when my favourite Tolkien Author uploads something.
Despite that I can say Elenwe's part joins seamlessly the universe you have created and I liked her point of view. Just as E
I am sorry if you didn’t want all these spoilers, but I know how long you’ve waited for the ending. I certainly love thinking about it, but I try not to dwell on it too much because when I think about how much I still have to write between the ending of Vengeance and the last installment, I get really overwhelmed lol!
I am fine with spoilers, honestly. And I know exactly what you mean. I have to write another one and a half books at least before I get to F
This ties in with what you mentioned in Come One Again and Save US - E
Very interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes, as it were, although the parts that fascinate more are any reference to the F